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Democrats Play Politics with Intelligence

Guest Human

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John P. Murtha Posted on Nov 18 2005, 12:45 PM

"It is a U.S. intelligence failure and the way that intelligence was misused."




The truth really gets lost in all of this. I have always have gone after the truth, and no matter where it lead me. For me being in a wheelchair I have many physical scars, but they are NOTHING in comparison to the mental scars that I got from seeing how the Democrats played politics with Central American Intelligence.


I also saw how the catholic church was helping the sandinistas (so there I have no great love for the catholic church either).



Back then I saw many latinos and Latinas, as well as babies die in the most gruesome manner possible, and I as a Latino could not understand, and to this day I still can't understand why the democrats were opposed in helping out in Central America.


I was hoping that after 9/11 that the democrats would wake up, can some one explain to me why the democrats are still not waking up? because I really do not understand it.

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Guest blingbling

Human I do not understand how Central America relates to 911. You are not very clear on what is your interpretation of the truth is. Are you for what the Bush Administration is doing or against it? Let's focus on the clear and present danger. You and I both know that it is the Republican Party that is in the driver's seat right now. So, the driver is going to be the one responsible if we crash or not. The Democrats are in the backseat at the moment. but if Republicans don't start understanding the road we are taking at the next stop the Democrats will be back in control.

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blingbling Posted on Nov 20 2005, 06:55 PM

"Human I do not understand how Central America relates to 911. You are not very clear on what is your interpretation of the truth is."



Investigation of Iraq pre-war intelligence; that the seeds in how the intelligence commuinity gathers information was sewn many years ago in the politics of this country.


As to my post, it is 100% correct, it is not 90% correct or 99.999% correct.

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Guest blingbling

Why don't you explain the seeds. The only thing I ever heard was about how Reagan and Bush were involved in the Iran Contra fiasco. Is this what you are talking about? I thought the Republicans were the ones to blame on that as well.

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BlingBling, I want to see if you know.


The official number for the deaths in that war is 50,000.


Now my question is going to be real simple, I will further make it even more simplistic in that the numbers did not take into account the Mosquito Indians.


They were almost virtually wiped out.


What is the correct number in the war??????

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Guest BlingBling

I am in no way an expert of the Mosquito Indians, but I know they were

crucial to Colonel Oliver North and friends with their efforts to destabilize the




I do not know if this is the right topic title for this conversation. I am still

trying to figure out where Human is going with this.

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Guest Carlos Martinez

I know President Carter ordered the CIA to bring up the officers and torturers running the Argentine death squads to train a force of Nicaraguan Contrarrevolucionarios exiles in Honduras scheduled for terror missions across the border. Why do this you might ask. Because it is good for American business.

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On November 16, 1989, six Jesuit priests, their co-worker and her teenage daughter were massacred in El Salvador. A U.S. Congressional Task Force reported that those responsible were trained at the U.S. Army School of the Americas (SOA) at Ft. Benning, Georgia. In 1996 the Pentagon released training manuals used at SOA that advocated torture, extortion and execution.


SOA is now known as the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation (WHINSEC), a combat training facility for Latin American security personnel located at Fort Benning, Georgia. The purpose of the Institute is to provide professional education and training to eligible personnel of nations of the Western Hemisphere within the context of the democratic principles set forth in the Charter of the Organization of American States (such charter being a treaty to which the United States is a party),


Each year, 700-1000 military, civilian, and law enforcement personnel from countries in the Western Hemisphere attend one or more of WHINSEC 24 courses. Most of them are taught in Spanish, although an English version of the NCO Professional Development Course is offered in English to the nations of the Caribbean. All international students are selected using the vetting system that applies to all foreign students coming to US government training.


WHINSEC Training is oriented towards professional classroom instruction in democracy and human rights, ethics, and a working knowledge of the employment of the tactical intelligence cycle, military decision-making process, link analysis, and creation of target intelligence products. Additional instruction for each student integrates instruction on human rights, the rule of law, due process, civilian control of the military, and the role of the military in a democratic society.


WHINSEC Courses are taught primarily in Spanish (one presently in English) by a mix of civilian U.S. academicians, officers from three branches of the U.S. Armed Forces and the U.S. Department of State. Highly qualified and carefully selected military officers and civilian professors from Latin American defense ministries, police, and civilian colleges and universities complete this robust faculty.


Every year since the fences have gone up around WHINSEC, the number of those arrested for trespassing has diminished. Fewer people going to jail means fewer news stories in fewer places about them.


All major media and most international media ignore the whole issue; last year’s

protest got 15 seconds on CNN Headline News on Sunday; they had to share a half

minute with the “God Bless Fort Benning” event.

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Guest SOAW.org

Quelle: Declassified Army and CIA Manuals (used in Latin America and the US Army School of the Americas –


http://www.lawg.org/pages/new pages/Misc/Publications-manuals.htm


"CIVILIAN SECURITY: In all cases the mission of the military forces has priority over the well-being of the civilians in the area. (From the army manual "Counterintelligence")


"The CI agent must offer presents and compensation for information leading to the arrest, capture or death of guerillas." ("Handling of Sources," p. 35, included in Pentagon's excerpts.)


"Before the guerillas take control:


The CI agent should consider all organizations as possible guerilla sympathizers. He ought to train and locate informants inside these organizations to inform him about activities and discover any indication of a latent insurrection. We are especially interested in identifying the members of the guerillas commando structure, its political structure and base of support. By infiltrating informants in the diverse youth, workers, political, business, social and charitable organizations, we can identify the organizations that include guerillas among their members. The agent can also identify the relatives of these guerillas, their supporters and sympathizers of the insurrectionary movement.... The CI agent also should investigate other organizations that are not yet under the guerillas' control, since doubtless these will include members who sympathize with the insurrectionary movement; for that reason, it is essential to identify those persons." ("Handling of Sources," p. 75)


"The CI agent could cause the arrest of the employee's parents, imprison the employee or give him a beating as part of the placement plan of said employee in the guerilla organization."


("Handling of Sources, p. 79, included in Pentagon's excerpts.)


"The employee's value can be increased... by means of arrests, executions or pacification."


("Handling of Sources," p. 80, included in Pentagon's excerpts.)


"Measures of Controlling the Population and Resources


1. Surveillance. To control the movement of supplies, equipment, and people, it will be necessary to control and monitor the population's activities. Surveillance measures are used to identify insurgents, identify those who support them, and identify the manner in which aid is provided to the insurgents. Restrictive measures are those that are aimed to isolate the insurgent from the general population, physically and psychologically, denying him his principal source of supply.


1. ID Cards. An effective system of identification is fundamental to the program for controlling the population and resources.


2. Registration. A program of registering families is used to supplement the system of ID cards. This is the system of inventorying all families by house, making a list of all members of the family who live in the house along with the family's resources. One can also note the presence of insurgent tendencies and affiliations among the population.


3. Control by block. The purpose of block-by-block control is to detect the individuals who are supporting or sympathizing with the insurgents and the type of support they are providing.


4. Police patrols. Police patrols can be compared to reconnaissance patrols. Their purpose is to detect sources of insurgent support, sympathizers, and routes used by the insurgent forces for intelligence, logistics, and routine activities and to act to prevent these activities.


Restrictive Measures. Once the collection of information about the insurgents' supply system has been effective, the government forces can efficiently implement restrictive measures.


1. Control of travel and transportation. A program of control of the population and resources must include a system of passes.


2. Curfew. Curfews can be an effective method to restrict movement between specific hours through a specific area or specific routes. The purpose is to permit the authorities to identify violators and take actions based on the premise that anyone who violates the curfew is an insurgent or sympathizes with the insurgents until he can prove the contrary.


3. Checkpoints. It is of little use to establish a program of passes and ID cards unless there is a system of verifying these official papers. Therefore, establishing checkpoints in all travel routes is necessary once the use of passes has started...." ("Terrorism and the Urban Guerilla," pp. 118-119)


"It is essential that domestic defense intelligence agencies obtain information about the political party or parties that support the insurgent movement, the quantity of influence that the insurgents exercise, and the presence of the insurgent movement in the nonviolent public attacks against the government." ("Revolutionary War, Guerillas and Communist Ideology," 1989, p. 49)


From CIA manual "Human Resource Exploitation Manual -1983":


"I. Control - The capacity to cause or change certain types of human behavior by implying or using physical or psychological means to induce compliance. Compliance may be voluntary or involuntary.


Control can rarely be established without control of the environment. By controlling the subject's physical environment, we will be able to control his psychological state of mind."


("Human Resource Exploitation Manual - 1983," p. A-6)


"I. Apprehension.


A. The manner and timing of arrest can contribute substantially to the 'questioner's' purpose and should be planned to achieve surprise and the maximum amount of mental discomfort. He should therefore be arrested at a moment when he least expects it and when his mental and physical resistance is at its lowest.


The ideal time at which to make an arrest is in the early hours of the morning. When arrested at this time, most subjects experience intense feelings of shock, insecurity, and psychological stress and for the most part have great difficulty adjusting to the situation.


B. As to the manner of the arrest, it is very important that the arresting party behave in such a manner as to impress the subject with their efficiency. The subject should be rudely awakened and immediately blindfolded and handcuffed....


II. Handling upon arrival at the facility.


A. Subject is brought into the facility blindfolded and handcuffed and should remain so during the entire processing.


B. Any time the subject is moved for any reason, he should be blindfolded and handcuffed.


C. Subject should be required to comply immediately and precisely with all instructions.


F. Subject is completely stripped and told to take a shower. Blindfold remains in place while showering and guard watches throughout.


G. Subject is given a thorough medical examination, including all body cavities, by the facility doctor or nurse.


K. Total isolation should be maintained until after the first 'questioning' session. Conditions can be adjusted after this session.


L. Subject should be made to believe that he has been forsaken by his comrades.


M. Throughout his detention, subject must be convinced that his 'questioner' controls his ultimate destiny, and that his absolute cooperation is necessary for survival."


("Human Resource Exploitation Manual - 1983," p. F-1-F-3)


"F. News from Home


Allowing a subject to receive carefully selected letters from home can help create an effect desired by the 'questioner.' For example, the subject may get the idea that his relatives are under duress or suffering. A suggestion at the proper time that his cooperation or confession can help protect the innocent may be effective." ("Human Resource Exploitation Manual - 1983," p. J-6)


"2. A cooperative witness can sometimes be coached to exaggerate the subject's involvement or accuse him of a worse crime than the matter at hand. Upon hearing these remarks from a recording, a subject may confess the truth about the lesser guilt in order to provide himself with an alibi.


3. If the witness refuses to denounce the subject, the 'questioner' elicits and records remarks from him denouncing someone else known to him, for example, a criminal who was recently convicted in court. During the next session with the subject, these remarks, edited as necessary, are played back so that the subject is persuaded that he is the subject of the remarks."


("Human Resource Exploitation Manual - 1983," p. J-8)


"D. Threats and Fear


The threat of coercion usually weakens or destroys resistance more effectively than coercion itself. For example, the threat to inflict pain can trigger fears more damaging than the immediate sensation of pain. In fact, most people underestimate their capacity to withstand pain. In general, direct physical brutality creates only resentment, hostility, and further defiance.


The effectiveness of a threat depends on the personality of the subject, whether he believes the 'questioner' can and will carry out the threat, and on what he believes to be the reason for the threat. A threat should be delivered coldly, not shouted in anger, or made in response to the subject's own expressions of hostility." ("Human Resource Exploitation Manual - 1983," p. K-8)


Excerpts from the CIA's "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation - July 1963": .........


"The legislation which founded KUBARK specifically denied it any law-enforcement or police powers. Yet detention in a controlled environment and perhaps for a lengthy period is frequently essential to a successful counterintelligence interrogation of a recalcitrant source. [section whited out] This necessity, obviously, should be determined as early as possible.


The legality of detaining and questioning a person, and of the methods employed, [section whited out]." ("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 7)


"Interrogations conducted under compulsion or duress are especially likely to involve illegality and to entail damaging consequences for KUBARK. Therefore prior Headquarters approval at the KUDOVE level must be obtained for the interrogation of any source against his will and under any of the following circumstances:


1. If bodily harm is to be inflicted.


2. If medical, chemical, or electrical methods or materials are to be used to induce acquiescence.


3. [whited out] ("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 8)


"The profound moral objection to applying duress past the point of irreversibly psychological damage has been stated. Judging the validity of other ethical arguments about coercion exceeds the scope of this paper. What is fully clear, however, is that controlled coercive manipulation of an interrogatee may impair his ability to make fine distinctions but will not alter his ability to answer correctly such gross questions as 'Are you a Soviet agent? What is your assignment now? who is your present case officer?" ("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 84)


"The following are the principal coercive techniques of interrogation: arrest, detention, deprivation of sensory stimuli through solitary confinement or similar methods, threats and fear, debility, pain, heightened suggestibility and hypnosis, narcosis, and induced regression." ("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 85)


"1. The more completely the place of confinement eliminates sensory stimuli, the more rapidly and deeply will the interrogatee be affected. Results produced only after weeks or months of imprisonment in an ordinary cell can be duplicated in hours or days in a cell which has no light (or weak artificial light which never varies), which is sound-proofed, in which odors are eliminated, etc. An environment still more subject to control, such as water-tank or iron lung, is even more effective." ("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 90)


"If a coercive technique is to be used, or if two or more are to be employed jointly, they should be chosen for their effect upon the individual and carefully selected to match his personality."


("KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation--July 1963," p. 103)

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Guest Daniel Hopsicker

San Diego businessman Brent Wilkes, a key figure in the Randy “Duke” Cunningham bribery scandal—as well as the Justice Department investigation of Republican lobbyist Jack Abramoff—worked in Honduras during the 1980’s for a company accused by federal prosecutors of deep involvement in cocaine trafficking.


Over the weekend the San Diego Union-Tribune, Cunningham’s hometown paper, reported that Brent Wilkes has a two decade long history of close links with the CIA.


Wilkes...and best friend Kyle Dustin "Dusty" Foggo, currently third-in-command at the Central Intelligence Agency... were roommates at San Diego State University, were best men at each other's weddings and named their sons after each other.”

“Wilkes' career in political relations dates to the early 1980s, shortly after Foggo joined the CIA. Foggo was sent to Honduras to work with the Contra rebels who were trying to topple the Sandinista government of Nicaragua, according to sources within the CIA.”


“Wilkes moved to Washington, D.C., and opened a business named World Finance Corp. about three blocks away from the White House,” continued the report.


“One of his chief activities, sources say, was to accompany congressmen– including then-Rep. Bill Lowery of San Diego, whom Wilkes met during his participation in the SDSU Young Republicans organization– to Central America to meet with Foggo and Contra leaders.”

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  • 1 month later...
Guest Freetospeak

I don't know what you are griping about Human. I believe what you stated is 100% correct. Historically the Democratic Party was in control of the government since FDR. The problem is today that they are more deceptive than the Republicans. They say we Republicans hide under the Flag. Well the Democrats hide behind liberal causes to their own personal agendas.


People should read the memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant. Read his accounts of the Mexican American War. Manifest Destiny was a Democratic concept of Jefferson. Jackson interpreted our Destiny as an American Social construct to conquer all who opposed it. It was the Republican ideals of men like Grant and Lincoln that had to preserve it. It was FDR who had to heal a starving country with new ideas. Then came Eisenhower who was once again called to defend them.


It has and always will be Republicans like yourself that will be called to define what it truly means to be American. Our neighbors believe that means them too. Maybe we should allow outside states to be admitted to our Union.

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Guest human_*

my posts were taken out of this thread --------------> Investigation On Iraq Prewar Intelligence, U.S. Senate Committee on Intelligence


That is why I want this entire thread removed.

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my posts were taken out of this thread --------------> Investigation On Iraq Prewar Intelligence, U.S. Senate Committee on Intelligence


That is why I want this entire thread removed.



I just got back from winter vacation. I tried to contact the person that was writing as a guest, but I did not receive an email response.


It is our policy not to editing guest messages without knowing who wrote them. At this point of the thread the guest began writing about Central American Intelligence rather that the stated topic, 'Iraq Prewar Intelligence.'


I can make a change to this topic if you send an email to luke@dcpages.com stating you are the person who posted as guest Human. I will have to edit this statement and my edit will be shown on the board.


But I cannot delete other remarks without the permission of the other posters.

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