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The Church of Latter Day Saints was founded by Mason

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Guest Soldier of God_*

Mormonism was born in the bosom of Masonry. Joseph Smith, Sr., was a documented member in upstate New York. He was raised to the degree of Master Mason on May 7, 1818 in Ontario Lodge No. 23 of Canandaigua, New York.


Joseph Smith, Jr. (December 23, 1805 - June 27, 1844) was an American religious figure who founded the Latter Day Saint movement, also known as Mormonism. Smith's followers declared him to be the first and true latter-day prophet, whose mission was to restore the original Christian church, said to have been lost soon after the death of the Apostles which caused an apostasy. This restoration included the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the publication of the Book of Mormon and other new scriptures.


In April 6, 1830 the Mormon Church was founded, The Nauvoo Temple was dedicated on April 6 and the Mormon Church teaches that the birth of Christ actually was April 6 (though they celebrate it on December 25).


In May 1839, Joseph Smith, Jr. began purchasing land in Commerce, Illinois a farm or two at a time at first, until very large tracts of land were owned. This soon became the central gathering place for the Church and eventually the name was changed to Nauvoo. A liberal Charter was obtained from the State Legislature, granting it official recognition as a city. The Charter also granted broad authority to pass laws, establish district courts, police departments, city councils, a standing militia (giving official and lawful sanction to the Nauvoo Legion), etc.


With the privileges granted in the Charter by the State Legislature, and with the majority of the residents being Mormon, the constitutional separation of church and state relationship was unintentionally, but predictably violated.


The principle leaders of the church were also elected to the most important city positions, giving them almost exclusive political as well as ecclesiastical authority over the church and community. As might be predicted, many civil laws were enacted which reflected the religious beliefs and values of the majority, often to the displeasure of the minority of non-LDS residents of the city. Nauvoo grew so rapidly that by the time the church started it's western exodus it is reported to have been three times the size of the then current Chicago.


On March 15, 1842, Joseph Smith, Jr. was initiated as an Entered Apprentice Mason at the Nauvoo Lodge, as indicated by his journal entries:


Tuesday, [March] 15. I officiated as grand chaplain at the installation of the Nauvoo Lodge of Free Masons, at the Grove near the Temple. Grand Master Jonas, of Columbus, being present, a large number of people assembled on the occasion. The day was exceedingly fine; all things were done in order, and universal satisfaction was manifested. In the evening I received the first degree in Freemasonry in the Nauvoo Lodge, assembled in my general business office.


The next day, he was raised to the degree of Master Mason; the usual month-long wait between degrees was waived by the Illinois Lodge Grandmaster, Abraham Jonas. Some commentators have noted similarities between portions of temple ordinance of the endowment and the Royal Arch Degree of Freemasonry.


On Wednesday, 4 May 1842, after two days of preparation in the upper story of his Nauvoo store the Joseph Smith, Jr. gathered together nine men. In a significant departure from the simple washings and anointings received in Kirtland, these men were introduced to new theological instructions and ritual. According to the account recorded in the "The Book of the Law of the Lord," Smith spent the day "In council in the Presidents & General offices with Judge [James] Adams. Hyram Smith Newell K. Whitney. William Marks, Wm Law. George Miller. Brigham Young. Heber C. Kimball & Willard Richards. [blank] & giving certain instructions concerning the priesthood.


Also in 1842, "The Articles of Faith," a concise listing of thirteen fundamental doctrines of Mormonism composed by Joseph Smith, Jr., were sent by letter to "Long" John Wentworth, editor of the Chicago Democrat.


In February, 1844, Smith announced his candidacy for President of the United States, with Sidney Rigdon as his vice-presidential running mate. He also theorized a quasi-republican political system which he termed Theodemocracy and organized the Council of Fifty based upon its principles.


The Masons, annoyed at rumors of corruption of the Masonic ritual in the Mormon lodges (which now numbered five, three in Nauvoo and two in Iowa) and furious at Joseph's refusal to send the lodge records to Springfield for inspection, were determined to revoke the dispensations and declare all the Mormon lodges clandestine. This was done in the 1844 meeting of the Grand Lodge.


A few disaffected Mormons in Nauvoo joined together to publish a newspaper, the Nauvoo Expositor. Its first and only issue was published 7 June 1844. The paper was highly antagonistic toward Smith, expounding many beliefs critical of him, and outlining several grievances against him. The bulk of the Expositor's single issue was devoted to criticism of Smith, founder of the Latter Day Saint movement and the mayor of Nauvoo, and inflamed many of Nauvoo's citizens. The city council, headed by Joseph Smith as mayor, responded by passing an ordinance declaring the newspaper a public nuisance designed to promote violence against Smith and his followers. Under the council's new ordinance, Nauvoo's mayor, Smith, in conjunction with the city council, ordered the city marshal to destroy the paper and the press on June 10, 1844.


This action was seen by many non-Mormons as illegal and Smith was accused of violating the freedom of the press. Violent threats were made against Smith and the Mormon community. Charges were brought against Smith and he submitted to incarceration in Carthage, the Hancock County seat. Smith's brother, Hyrum, and eight of his associates including John Taylor and Willard Richards, accompanied him to the jail. The Governor of the state, Thomas Ford, had promised protection and a fair trial. All of Smith's associates left the jail, except his brother Hyrum, Richards and Taylor. Those in jail were not held in the 1st floor jail cell because the jailer felt that that was unsafe; instead they were held in the jailer's room on the 2nd floor.


Shortly after 5:00 p.m. on June 27, 1844, a mob of about 200 men stormed the jail, and went to where Smith and his associates were imprisoned. Although they attempted to hold the door shut against the mob, the mob opened fire through the still-closed door, shooting Hyrum Smith in the face. As the mob burst through the doorway, Joseph Smith (who had earlier been given a six-shooter by a visitor) managed to fire three shots at the mob. His brother Hyrum Smith died immediately from the shot in the face. Taylor was shot several times, but survived. One of the bullets hit his pocket watch, saving his life. Richards was unharmed. Smith ran to the open window, where he was shot multiple times simultaneously (both from within the room and from the outside), and fell from the window, dead. Upon falling to the ground, he was shot several more times. Mormons view his death as martyrdom.


The first five Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith Jr., Brigham Young, John Taylor, Wilford Woodruff, and Lorenzo Snow were all made Masons in Nauvoo Lodge.


Some historians believe that the secret combinations, like those of the Gadianton Robbers referred to in the Book of Mormon, were symbolic for Freemasonry, although Joseph Smith Jr. never explicitly confirmed such beliefs.


Its interesting to note that in the Latter Day Saint movement, a secret combination is a secret society of "people bound together by oaths to carry out the evil purposes of the group." Secret combinations were first discussed in the Book of Mormon, published in 1830 by Joseph Smith, Jr. The most notable example of a secret combination is the Gadianton robbers, a conspiracy throughout much of the Book of Mormon narrative. According to the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, Cain also entered a secret combination with Satan and became Master Mahan.


Master Mahan is a title assumed first by Cain and later by his descendant Lamech, according to the Book of Moses, a book of scripture in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and other Latter Day Saint denominations. It is published today as part of the Pearl of Great Price. and part of the standard works of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints


In 1830, according to adherents of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Joseph Smith was commanded by God to create a new translation of the Bible, in order to restore lost portions and correct mistranslations in the modern text. The Book of Moses is a partial result of that work.


After Satan promises to obey Cain and to assist him in murdering his brother Abel, Cain says, "Truly I am Mahan, the master of this great secret, that I may murder and get gain," and is thereafter known as Master Mahan. Later, Lamech the son of Methusael also "entered into a covenant with Satan, after the manner of Cain, wherein he became Master Mahan, master of that great secret which was administered unto Cain by Satan".


Mormon temple worship does share some common symbols, signs, and clothing with Freemasonry, although a few of the similarities have been eliminated from temple ceremonies in recent years. It is not necessarily the case that these shared symbols represent similar ideas or are interchangeable with each other. Greg Kearney, LDS member and Mason, argues that Joseph Smith initially borrowed from the Masonic ritual in order to teach the temple endowment, presumably because so many people of the time and area were Masons. Thus, aspects of the ritual can be considered distinct from the temple endowment, which has in later years shed some of the Masonic symbolism, as it is not as relevant to today's audience.


The close affinity of religious and phallic rites is a common place in Masonic history, and Mormon ritual doubtless had its roots in the same unconscious drives that led the prophet into polygamy. The endowment ceremony was essentially fertility worship; but its basic nature was so camouflaged that only the skeptical felt a sense of outrage.


A good deal of the ceremony performed after the rituals of washing and anointing was borrowed from the Freemason. From his earliest youth in Palmyra Joseph had known the old Masonic legend that Masonry dated back to the time of Solo coon's temple.(3) (3., The Palmyra Register on January to, 1821 quoted the Masonic Register as follows: "Solomon was endowed with wisdom from on high to designate the plan; he called the craft together, and the temple of our God was begun and finished solely by Masonic hands." Actually Masonry dates from about the thirteenth century. It originated in Britain as a trade guild, though it incorporated some symbols that date back to various mystery cults in antiquity.) Although he had peppered the Book of Mormon with anti-Masonic strictures stemming from the Morgan hysteria, he had long since lost his hostility to the craft. Masonry was now as respectable as before 1827, and when judge James Adams, Deputy Grand Master of the Illinois Masonic Order, urged him to set up a lodge in Nauvoo, he complied at once.




Today there is no formal obstacle preventing Mormons from becoming Freemasons or vice versa.

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  • 1 month later...

Here is a cartoon banned by the Mormon church. I never realized they believed Jesus and Satan are brothers.




Kolob is a star or planet described in the Book of Abraham of Mormon scripture revealed to Joesph Smith.


According to Joseph Smith, Jr. biographer Fawn Brodie, Smith's idea of Kolob may have been derived from the "throne of God" idea found in Thomas Dick's The Philosophy of a Future State,[45] which Brodie said Smith "had recently been reading" before dictating the Book of Abraham, and which "made a lasting impression" on him.

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Guest Soldier of God_*

The Latter-Day Saints, strangely enough, submitted to the decrees of Congress, unwittingly admitting by their submission that the revelation of their founder and prophet, Joseph Smith, could not have come from God. If the command to restore polygamy to the modern world was from on High, then, by submitting to the decision of the Supreme Court, the Mormon hierarchy reversed the apostolic proclamation and acknowledged it was better "to obey man than to obey God".


Mormonism announces as one of its principal aims the preparation of a people for the coming of the Lord; a people who will build the New Jerusalem, and there await His coming. The United Order, the means of preparation, is at present in abeyance, but the preliminary work of gathering Israel goes on, not to Zion proper (Jackson County, Missouri) but to the Stakes of Zion, now numbering sixty-one, most of them in Utah; the others are in Idaho, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, Oregon, Canada and Mexico. A stake is a division of the Mormon Church, organized in such a way as to constitute almost a "church" in itself; in each stake are subdivisions called wards, also fully organized. The area of a stake is usually that of a county, though the extent of territory differs according to population or other conditions. Each stake is presided over by three high-priests, who, with twelve high councilors, constitute a tribunal for the adjudication of differences among church members within their jurisdiction. Each ward has a bishopric of three, a lower tribunal, from whose decisions appeals may be taken to the high council. The extreme penalty inflicted by the church courts is excommunication. In each stake are quorums of high-priests, seventies, and elders, officers and callings in the Melchisedech priesthood: and in each ward, quorums of priests, teachers, and deacons, who officiate in the Aaronic priesthood. This lesser authority ministers in temporal things, while the higher priesthood ministers in things spiritual, which include the temporal.


Presiding over the entire Church is a supreme council of three high-priests, called the First Presidency, otherwise known as the president and his counsellors. Next to these are the twelve apostles, equal in authority to the First Presidency, though subject to and acting under their direction. Whenever the First Presidency is dissolved, which occurs at the death of the president, the apostles take the government and reorganize the supreme council -- always, however, with the consent of the Church, whose members are called to vote for or against this or any other proposition submitted to them. The manner of voting is with the uplifted right hand, women voting as well as men. Besides the general conference held semi-annually and the usual Sabbath meetings, there are stake and ward conferences, in which the consent of the people is obtained before any important action is taken. The special function of the apostles is to preach the Gospel, or have it preached, in all nations, and to set in order, whenever necessary, the affairs of the entire Mormon Church.


Among the general authorities there is also a presiding patriarch, who, with his subordinates in the various stakes, gives blessings to the people and comforts them with sacred ministrations. The first council of the Seventies, seventy in number, assist the twelve apostles, and preside over all the quorums of seventies. Upon a presiding bishopric of three devolves the duty of receiving and disbursing the revenues of the Church, and otherwise managing its business, under the general direction of the first presidency.


The Book of Mormon says that the Lamanites and some Nephites (Jews who are alleged to have migrated fro Palestine to the New World around 600 B.C.) were punished by God for their wickedness. The "punishment," inflicted in the form of a curse, was to turn them from white-skinned Semites into dark-skinned Indians (cf. 1 Nephi 12:23; 2 Nephi 5:20-24; Jacob 3:3-5; Alma 3:5-9; Mormon 5:15-18). The Book of Mormon adds that those who receive the curse and later repent can have their skins turned white again (Jacob 3:8; 3 Nephi 2:14-15; Alma 23:18).


Elohim is the common name for God. It is a plural form, but "The usage of the language gives no support to the supposition that we have in the plural form Elohim, applied to the God of Israel, the remains of an early polytheism, or at least a combination with the higher spiritual beings." I would be interested to know more about the mysterious star called "Koloff".


There is probably no greater sin than to place your trust in a God whose attributes do not match those of the God of the Bible. The biblical term for such a sin is idolatry. The fact that Joseph Smith failed to represent the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob proves that he was not a true prophet. God warned the children of Israel that if any arose and attempted to entice Israel to "go after other gods" he was to be put to death (Deuteronomy 13:1-3, 5). Do you think He takes this any less serious today? To insist on following the God of the Mormon Church will result in spiritual death, a painful separation from the Creator for all eternity. The stakes are too high to trust in any other. My prayers go out for all Latter-day Saints is that they see how they have been deceived by Joseph Smith and the "prophets and apostles" who followed him and ultimately place their trust in the God who has been changing lives for centuries, the God of the Bible.

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  • 4 years later...
Guest Augustine

Joseph Smith’s Jewish connection

San Francisco Jewish Community Publications Inc.


Joseph Smith learned to speak and read Hebrew, beginning on his own in the winter of 1835. The following January, he brought Joshua Seixas, son of Rabbi Gershom Mendes Seixas, minister of Congregation Shearith Israel in New York from 1768 to 1776, to teach in the “School of the Prophets” he’d established to provide spiritual and secular instruction to Church leaders and members. Seixas had taught Hebrew at Princeton Theological Seminary, among other places, and authored a book on Hebrew grammar. During the six-week course, Seixas led the class through the entire book of Genesis in Hebrew.


Smith said, “My soul delights in reading the word of the Lord in the original, and I am determined to pursue the study of languages, until I shall become master of them, if I am permitted to live long enough.” He kept to his word and continued to study Hebrew throughout his life – in fact, the last town in which the Latter-day Saints settled in Joseph’s lifetime was named “Nauvoo,” the pilel form of the verb na’ah (or na’wu) in the Sephardic transliteration Smith had learned from Seixas.


• In the hours before his murder, Joseph Smith, his brother Hyrum, and others who were with him took turns reading aloud from the writings of Jewish historian Josephus.



Guide to the Papers of the Seixas Family


Joshua Seixas, June 4, 1802-187?


Son of Gershom Mendes Seixas. Joshua converted to Christianity early in his life, and taught Hebrew at Oberlin and Western Reserve Colleges in Ohio. He published his first edition of A Manual of Hebrew Grammar in 1834, the same year he wrote to his friend Elizabeth as noted in the collection. Joshua Seixas married Henrietta Raphael in Richmond, and the couple had ten children: Julia Ann (1822-?), Esther H. (1825-?), Myrtilla (1827-?), Grace (1827-?), Virginia (1829-?), Theodora (1831-?), Henrietta Francis (1833-1902), Gershom Arnold (1835-1919), Selina (1838-1917), and Seraphine (1840-?)


Rabbi Gershom Mendes Seixas, 1746-1816.


Son of Isaac Mendes Seixas. He was the first native-born minister in the United States and one of the most noted of early American Jews. During the Revolutionary War he fled first to Stratford, Connecticut where he joined his father (1776), residing as well in Norwalk, Connecticut. In 1780, he moved his family to Philadelphia (1780), where he served as minister and helped establish Congregation Mikveh Israel. He returned to New York in 1784, one year before his first wife Elkalah died. He may have been present at the inauguration of George Washington in New York in 1789. As Hazzan (prayer leader) of Congregation Shearith Israel, he also served at times as the community's mohel (circumciser), teacher, and shochet (ritual slaughterer). He founded the oldest existing Jewish philanthropic organization in New York, Hebra Hased Va-Amet (1802- ), a funeral society. He also initiated the formation of a charity society, Kalfe Sedaka Mattan Basether (1798-1816). He was a trustee of Columbia College from 1784-1814. He married Elkalah Myers-Cohen (1749-1785) in 1775 in New York and they had four children: Isaac (died in infancy), Sarah Abigail (1778-1854), Rebecca Mendes (1780-1867), and Benjamin (1783-1847). He then married Hannah Manuel (1766-1856) in 1786 and they had eleven children: David (1788-1864), Grace (1789-1826), Samuel (1792-1852), Joseph (1794-?), Elkalah (?-1831), Rachel (1801-1827), Joshua (1802-187?), Theodore J. (1803-1882) and his twin Henry (1803-1822), Lucy Orah (1804-1825), Selina (1806-1883), and Myrtilla (1807-1859).


Moses Mendes Seixas, March 28, 1744-November 29, 1809.


Son of Isaac Mendes Seixas, brother of Gershom. He was one of the organizers and first cashier of the Bank of Rhode Island. The bank conducted its business in his house until 1818. After the British occupied Newport during the Revolutionary War, Moses M. Seixas remained in Newport and was among the signers of a document pledging loyalty to the patriot cause. In 1790 he was president of the congregation in Newport, Jeshuat Israel and addressed George Washington in an historic letter of welcome. He was a charter member and in 1802 became first grand master of St. John's Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of Newport. Moses Mendes Seixas married Jochebed Levy in 1770 and they had eight children: Rachel (1773-1822), Benjamin (1775-1843), Judith (1777-1829), Isaac (1779-1786), Bella (1781-1860), Abigail (1782-1854), Gershom (died in infancy), Grace (1786-1865), and Hetty (1790-1854).

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I went to Mormon service last week. I was quite impressed with the whole congregation. They are truly devout, family, and community oriented. While having children and young adults as Aaronic and Melchizedek priests was completely foreign to me, I was captivated by their purity. After service the congregation splits up and goes into priestly education. I really enjoyed the discussion.

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Guest Frederic

In 1860, the explorer, Jules Achille Remy , one of the first French to have visited Salt Lake City, wrote about them:


Joseph Smith's parents were farmers: they lived first Windsor County, in the State Vermont. His father, who enjoyed a large enough ease, was ruined early in speculation crystallized ginseng, which he had sent to China loading, a consignee infidel never paid him. He rose to ruin cultivating a farm owned by his stepfather, and by school children during the winter the place. It was not, it was far from a religious spirit: however, he changed feelings and later converted to 1811, thanks to the prayers of his wife. He even came to have visions, and, from his conversion, he spent the rest of his life in religious practices. Lucy Mack, his woman, mother of the prophet, had always been very pious and even addicted to religious reveries ... His life was all mysticism. Sometimes they were visions which showed that all religions were diverted from the truth. OF Other times, it was a miraculous intervention in favor of his family ...

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Guest ThinkSpeak

We could all learn from the bonds of fraternal love




Noel B. Reynolds, associate academic vice president for religious instruction at Brigham Young University told the Muslims attending a conference:


There are many important elements of Mormon thought in which we would feel closer to the followers of Muhammad than to the contemporary Christian culture in which we have been located since our beginnings.


William Hamblin, a doctoral candidate in Near Eastern studies at the University of Michigan, also dealt with prophets and prophethood in the Islamic tradition. With the use of slides, he examined

two of six nonbiblical prophets described in the Qur'an, focusing particularly on one called Hud in the southern part of the Arabian peninsula. Although he warned that no causal link can be established between Hud and the pre-Islamic Book of Mormon Lehi, who traveled in Arabia, the parallels are at least intriguing. His research confirms Qur'anic assertion that God has inspired not only Hebrew and Christian prophets but nonbiblical prophets as well.


Mahmoud Mustafa Ayoub, associate professor in the Centre for Religious Studies at the University of Toronto, delivered a lecture on the idea of redemption in Islam. He observed that to understand

it one must first understand Western Christianity's idea of redemption through suffering and death and the Eastern (Greek Orthodox) idea of redemption through the victorious conquering of death. Though Islam has its martyrs and the role of Muhammad as mediator is central, it draws primarily on the rich Eastern image of the cross as a throne of glory, one that grows out of the Muslim

concept of man's nature as essentially good, not burdened by original sin. Ayoub concludes that in the idea of the Mahdi, Islam and Christianity meet. Jesus will come to restore the world to its purity, but Muslim piety affirms that Jesus and the Mahdi will work together.


To fully appreciate Islam one must see it as a courageous redefinition of prophethood, that unlike the shamans, diviners, spirits, and oracular figures of the folk religion of pre-Islamic Arabia, a prophet in the Islamic view has no independent knowledge of the unseen. He has true knowledge only through the revelation of God, which he must obey. In the Muslim view, prophetic revelation is man's only means of gaining explicit and definite knowledge of the great realities of the unseen that affect his destiny.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Joseph Smith’s Sexual Polyandry that fathered some children through his plural marriages with single women needs to be understood whether it an adultery or divine act?




The following married women married Joseph Smith.


(The majority of the information here is from No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie & Reconsidering No Man Knows My History by Newell Bringhurst. Additional sources are included in parentheses after each woman's name. Scanned images of No Man Knows My History are available for several of the women. Many thanks go to the authors of the following websites where much of this information was gathered from:




Lucinda Pendleton (Morgan) (Harris) (Smith), 1801-? (died after the Civil War), probably married Joseph polyandrously in 1838, at age thirty-seven. She was the widow of the anti-Masonic martyr William Morgan, to whom she had been married from 1819 to 1826; she bore him two children. She then married George Washington Harris in 1830, who became a prominent high councilor in Missouri, Nauvoo, and Council Bluffs. She left Harris in approximately 1853, apparently converted to Catholicism, and served as a nursing nun in Tennessee during the Civil War.

Parents:Joseph Pendleton and Elizabeth Rilee

Born:September 27, 1801, Washington Co., Virginia


Marriage to Joseph Smith:1838, Far West, Missouri

Other Marriages:William Morgan, Virginia

George Washington Harris, January 12, 1831, Arkansas


Zina Diantha Huntington (Jacobs) (Smith) (Young), 1821-1901, married Joseph Smith polyandrously on October 27, 1841, at age twenty. She had married Henry Jacobs on March 7, 1841, and bore him two children. On February 2, 1846, she married Brigham Young polyandrously, for time. (In Mormon theology and ritual, spouses were generally married for time and eternity, but under special circumstances, as when a widow had already married her first husband for time and eternity, the partners were "seated" for time only. Most of Joseph Smith's plural marriages were re-solemnized in the Nauvoo temple, with living men standing proxy for Smith; generally, the proxy husbands were then married to the women for time.) Her marriage with Jacobs finally came to an end in May 1846, soon after the birth of their second child, when Brigham Young sent Henry on a mission to England. She and Young then began cohabiting as man and wife. In Utah, Zina bore Young a daughter, was a close friend and counselor of Eliza Snow Smith Young, and became the third General Relief Society president of the Latter-day Saint church.

Parents:William Huntington, Jr. and Zina Baker

Born:January 31, 1821, Watertown, New York

Died:August 28, 1901, Salt Lake City, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith: October 27, 1841, Nauvoo, Illinois

Other Marriages:Henry Bailey Jacobs, March 7, 1841

Brigham Young, February 2, 1846, Nauvoo, Illinois


1. Zebulon William Jacobs, January 2, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois

2. Henry Chariton Jacobs, March 22, 1846, Chariton, Iowa

3. Zina Prescindia Young, April 3, 1850, Salt Lake City, Utah

(Also see "History of Henry Bailey Jacobs." By Ora J. Cannon, page 5-7. also see "Recollections of Zina D. Young" by Mary Brown Firmage), ("Short Sketch of the Life of Henry B. Jacobs" By Ora J. Cannon),


Prescendia Lathrop Huntington (Buell) (Smith) (Kimball), 1810-92. The older sister of Zina Huntington, she married Joseph Smith polyandrously on December 11, 1841, at age thirty-one. She had married Norman Buell in 1827, with whom she lived for nineteen years even though he became disaffected from Mormonism in 1838. She bore him seven children, five of whom died young. After Smith's death, she married Heber C. Kimball polyandrously on February 4, 1846. She finally left Buell in May 1846 and traveled to Utah, where she bore Kimball two children.

Parents:William Huntington, Jr. and Zina Baker

Born:September 7, 1810, Watertown, New York

Died:February 1, 1892, Salt Lake City, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:December 11, 1841, Smith's Store, Nauvoo, Illinois

Other Marriages:Norman Buell, January 6, 1828, Watertown, New York

Heber Chase Kimball, November 7, 1846, Nauvoo, Illinois


1. George William Buell, December 12, 1829, Ellisburgh, New York

2. Silas Dimick Buell, December 25, 1831, Rodman, New York

3. Thomas D. Buell, March 8, 1834, Lorraine, New York

4. Chancy Dressor Buell, September 8, 1836, Kirtland, Ohio

5. Adaline Elizabeth Buell, April 24, 1838, Washington Township, Missouri

6. Oliver Norman Buell, January 31, 1840, Washington Township, Missouri

7. John Hiram Buell, July 13, 1843, Adams Co., Illinois

8. Prescindia Celestia Kimball, January 9, 1849, Salt Lake City, Utah

9. Joseph Smith Kimball, December 22, 1851, Salt Lake City, Utah

(See also Mormon Polygamy: A History" by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44) (Mary Ettie V. Smith, "Fifteen Years Among the Mormons", page 34; Fawn Brodie "No Man Knows My History" pages 301-302, 437-39)


Sylvia Porter Sessions (Lyon) (Smith) (Kimball) (Clark), 1818-82, married Joseph Smith polyandrously on February 8, 1842, at age twenty-three, and bore him one child, Josephine Lyon (Fisher), on February 8, 1844. Sylvia had married Windsor Lyon in 1838 and stayed with him for eleven years, bearing him four children, all of whom died as infants. He was excommunicated in Nauvoo in November 1842, due to a financial/legal conflict with Nauvoo Stake President William Marks, but was rebaptized in January 1846. Sylvia married Heber C. Kimball for time, polyandrously, on January 26, 1846, but did not go west with him, staying with Lyon. After Lyon's death in January 1849, she married a non-Mormon, Ezekiel Clark, in Iowa on January 1, 1850. She bore him three children (all of whom survived) but left him and came to Bountiful, Utah, in 1854.

Parents:David Sessions and Patty Bartlett

Born:July 31, 1818, Newry, Maine

Died:April 12, 1882, Bountiful, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:about 1843

Other Marriages:Windsor Palmer Lyon, 1838, Far West, Missouri

Heber Chase Kimball, January 1846, Nauvoo, Illinois

Ezekiel Clark, January 1, 1850, Iowa City, Iowa


1. Marian Lyon, July 30, 1839, Nauvoo, Illinois

2. Philofreen Lyon, June 11, 1841, Nauvoo, Illinois

3. Asa Windsor Lyon, December 25, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois

4. Josephine Rosetta Lyon, February 8, 1844, Nauvoo, Illinois

5. Byron Windsor Lyon, September 4, 1847, Iowa City, Iowa

6. David Carlos Lyon, August 8, 1848, Iowa City, Iowa

7. Perry Ezekiel Clark, February 8, 1851, Iowa City, Iowa

8. Phebe Jane Clark, September 1, 1852, Iowa City, Iowa

9. Martha Sylvia Clark, January 20, 1854, Iowa City, Iowa

(See also Affidavit to Church Historian Andrew Jenson, 24 Feb. 1915)


Mary Elizabeth Rollins (Lightner) (Smith) (Young), 1818-1913, married Joseph Smith polyandrously approximately at the end of February 1842, at age twenty-three. She had married Adam Lightner, a non-Mormon, in 1835, with whom she had ten children. Mary and Adam lived together until his death in 1885. She also married Brigham Young for time, polyandrously, on May 22, 1845, but never lived with him as his wife. The Lightner family resided in Wisconsin for a number of years but came to Utah in 1863. Mary lived most of her later life in Minerville in southern Utah.

Parents:John Porter Rollins and Keziah Keturah Van Benthuysen

Born:April 9, 1818, Lima, New York

Died:December 17, 1913, Minersville, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:January 17, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois

Other Marriages:Adam Lightner, August 11, 1835, Independence, Missouri

Brigham Young, January 17, 1846, Nauvoo, Illinois


1. Miles Henry Lightner, June 18, 1836, Far West, Missouri

2. Caroline Keziah Lightner, October 18, 1840, Half Breed Tract, Lee Co., Iowa

3. George Algernon Lightner, March 22, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois

4. Florentine Mathias Lightner, March 23, 1843, Far West, Missouri

5. John Horace Gilbert Lightner, February 9, 1847, Galena, Illinois

6. Elizabeth Lightner, April 3, 1849, Stillwater, Minnesota

7. Mary Rollins Lightner, April 9, 1850, Willow River, Wisconsin

8. Algernon Sidney Lightner, March 25, 1853, Hudson, Wisconsin

9. Charles Washington Lightner, March 17, 1857, Marine, Minnesota

10. Adam Lightner, Jr., October 28, 1861, Chisago, Minnesota

(See also Lightner, Mary E. Statement. 8 Feb. 1902; Lightner to Emmeline B. Wells, 21 Nov. 1880; Lightner to John R. Young, 25 Jan. 1892. George A. Smith Papers. Special Collections. University of Utah)


Patty Bartlett (Sessions) (Smith) (Parry), 1795-1892, married Joseph Smith polyandrously on March 9, 1842, at age forty-seven. The mother of Sylvia Sessions, Patty was famous as a frontier midwife and diarist. She married David Sessions in 1812, lived with him in Missouri, Nauvoo, and Utah, and bore him eight children; he died on August 11, 1850, in Salt Lake City. She then married John Parry for time in 1851; he died in 1868. She moved from Salt Lake City to Bountiful in 1872.

Parents:Enoch Bartlett and Anna Hall

Born:February 4, 1795, Bethel, Maine

Died:December 14, 1893, Bountiful, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:March 9, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois

Other Marriages:David Sessions, June 28, 1812, Newry, Maine

John Perry, March 27, 1852, Salt Lake City, Utah


1. Perrigrine Sessions, June 14, 1814, Newry, Maine

2. Sylvannus Sessions, June 5, 1816, Newry, Maine

3. Amanda Sessions, March 19, 1817, Newry, Maine

4. Sylvia Porter Session, July 31, 1818, Newry, Maine

5. Asa Sessions, about 1819, Newry, Maine

6. Anna B. Sessions, March 21, 1820, Newry, Maine

7. David Sessions, Jr., May 9, 1823, Newry, Maine

8. Anna B. Sessions, March 16, 1825, Newry, Maine

9. Bartlett Sessions, August 1, 1827, Newry, Maine

10. Amanda Sessions, March 19, 1837, Far West, Missouri


Sarah Maryetta Kingsley (Howe) (Cleveland) (Smith) (Smith), 1788-1856, married Joseph Smith polyandrously before June 29, 1842, approximately at age fifty-three or fiftyfour. She had married John Howe in 1807, with whom she had one son, but John died between 1823 and 1826. She then martied John Cleveland in 1826, with whom she lived for the rest of her life and to whom she bore two children. Sarah became Mormon between 1832 and 1836, but Cleveland never converted to Mormonism, although they eventually moved to Nauvoo. She served as first counselor to Emma Smith in the first Relief Society organization. After Smith's death, Sarah married John Smith, later church patriarch, her daughter's father-inlaw, in a polyandrous proxy marriage but never lived with him. The Clevelands stayed in Illinois when the Mormons went west.

Parents:Ebenezer Kingsley and Sarah Chaplin

Born:November 23, 1813, Massachusetts

Died:April 20, 1856, Plymouth, Illinois

Marriage to Joseph Smith:after June 1842

Other Marriages:John Howe, about 1807 John Cleveland, March 16, 1826, Cincinatti, Ohio

John Smith, January 1856, Nauvoo, Illinois


1. Edward Howe, 1808, Becket, Massachusetts

2. Augusta Bowen Cleveland, December 7, 1828, Cincinatti, Ohio

3. Alexander Dennison Cleveland, October 7, 1832, Cincinatti, Ohio


Ruth Daggett Vose (Sayers) (Smith), 1808-84, married Joseph Smith polyandrously in- February 1843, at age thirtythree. She had married Edward Sayers in 1841 and stayed with him until his death in 1861. Sayers was never baptized but lived with Ruth in Nauvoo and Salt Lake City, where they both died. She bore no children.


Born:February 26, 1808, Boston, Massachusetts

Died:August 18, 1884, Salt Lake City, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:August 1842

Other Marriages:Edward Sayers, January 23, 1841, St. Louis, Missouri



Elvira Annie Cowles (Holmes) (Smith), 1813-71, married Joseph Smith polyandrously on June 1, 1843, at age twentynine. She was the daughter of Austin Cowles, a counselor in the Nauvoo stake presidency, who joined William Law's dissenting church in Nauvoo, perhaps because he disapproved of joseph's marriage to his daughter. Elvira had married Jonathan Holmes on December 1, 1842, and stayed with him until her death, living most of her later life in Farmington, Utah. She bore Holmes five daughters from 1845 to 1856.

Parents:Austin Cowles and Phoebe Wilbur

Born:November 23, 1813, Unadilla, New York

Died:March 10, 1871, Farmington, Utah

Marriage to Joseph Smith:before December 1842

Other Marriages:Jonathan Harriman Holmes, December 1, 1842, Nauvoo, Illinois


1. Lucy Elvira Holmes, October 11, 1845, Nauvoo, Illinois

2. Marietta Holmes, July 17, 1849, Salt Lake City, Utah

3. Phebe Louisa Holmes, February 5, 1851, Farmington, Utah

4. Josephine Octavia Ann Holmes, July 8, 1854, Farmington, Utah

5. Emma Lucinda Holmes, February 1, 1856, Farmington, Utah

Marinda Hyde, [do not have full information](See Andrew Jenson, Church Chronology, August 6, 1844)



These married women were propositioned by Joseph Smith but turned him down.

(The bulk of this information was taken from

http://www.i4m.com/t...mens_wives.htm; many thanks to the author(s) of this site.)

Sarah Pratt, wife of Orson Pratt

"Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend that he was smitten by the "amiable and accomplished" Sarah Pratt and wanted her for "one of his spiritual wives, for the Lord had given her to him as a special favor for his faithfulness" (emphasis in original). Shortly afterward, the two men took some of Bennett's sewing to Sarah's house. During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, "Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse or deny me." "And is that the great secret that I am not to utter," Sarah replied. "Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will." She added, "I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me." But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent. Finally Sarah angrily told him on a subsequent visit, "Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it." "Sister Pratt," the Prophet responded, "I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?" "If you will never insult me again," Sarah replied, "I will not expose you unless strong circumstances should require it." "If you should tell," the Prophet added, "I will ruin your reputation, remember that."

(Article "Sarah M. Pratt" by Richard A. Van Wagoner, Dialogue, Vol.19, No.2, p.72. Also see The History of the Saints Sarah Pratt Section from http://www.xmission....ason/spratt.htm)


Jane Law, wife of William Law

"William Law, a former counselor in the First Presidency, wrote in his 13 May 1844 diary: "[Joseph] ha lately endeavored to seduce my wife, and ha found her a virtuous woman" The Laws elaborated on this in a public meeting shortly thereafter. "The Prophet had made dishonorable proposals to [my] wife . . . under cover of his asserted 'Revelation,' " Law stated. He further explained that Joseph came to the Law home in the middle of the night when William was absent and told Jane that "the Lord had commanded that he should take spiritual wives, to add to his glory." Law then called on his wife to corroborate what he had said. She did so and further explained that Joseph had "asked her to give him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband" Jane refused the Prophet, and according to William Law's 20 January 1887 letter to the Salt Lake Tribune, Smith then considered the couple apostates. "Jane had been speaking evil of him for a long time . . . slandered him, and lied about him without cause," Law reported Smith as saying. "My wife would not speak evil of . . . anyone . . . without cause," Law asserted. "Joseph is the liar and not she. That Smith admired and lusted after many men's wives and daughters, is a fact, but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations--see the case of . . . Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman."

("Mormon Polygamy" by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44)


Sarah Kimball, wife of Hiram Kimball

Sarah M. Kimball, a prominent Nauvoo and Salt Lake City Relief Society leader was also approached by the Prophet in early 1842 despite her solid 1840 marriage to Hiram Kimball. Sarah later recalled that

"Joseph Smith taught me the principle of marriage for eternity, and the doctrine of plural marriage. He said that in teaching this he realized that he jeopardized his life; but God had revealed it to him many years before as a privilege with blessings, now God had revealed it again and instructed him to teach with commandment, as the Church could travel [progress] no further without the introduction of this principle." ("LDS Biographical Encyclopedia" By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887)

Sarah Kimball, like Sarah Pratt, was committed to her husband, and refused the Prophet's invitation, asking that he "teach it to someone else." Although she kept the matter quiet, her husband and Smith evidently had difficulties over Smith's proposal. On 19 May 1842, at a Nauvoo City Council meeting, Smith jotted down and then "threw across the room" a revelation to Kimball which declared that "Hiram Kimball has been insinuating evil, and formulating evil opinions" against the Prophet, which if he does not desist from, he "shall be accursed." Sarah remained a lifetime member of the Church and a lifelong wife to Hiram Kimball.







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Guest Robert58

Many prophets in the Old Testament had more than one wife. The crux is a whether a Mormon sermon on the Mystery of God, Adam, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is accepted by its members.


Self-Government - Mysteries - Recreation and Amusements, Not in Themselves Sinful- Tithing- Adam, Our Father and Our God


A Sermon by President Brigham Young, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Great Salt Lake City, April 9, 1852.


Reported by G. D. Watt.


Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is Michael, the Archangel, the Ancient of Days! about whom holy men have written and spoken—He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good for man; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so n in succession. I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the whole truth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitious and overrighteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era; and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming “great is the mystery of godliness,” and tell nothing.


It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.


Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, “it is an immaterial substance!” What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.


I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea—“if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties.”


Treasure up these things in your hearts. In the Bible, you have read the things I have told you tonight; but you have not known what you did read. I have told you no more than you are conversant with; but what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know about this subject? Comparatively nothing.



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Mormons believe that Michael is Adam, the a prince, and the patriarch of the human family and Michael/Adam assisted Jehovah (the heavenly form of Jesus Christ) in the creation of the world under the direction of God the Father and cast Satan out of heaven.


The Eastern Orthodox accord Michael the title "Archistrategos", or "Supreme Commander of the Heavenly Hosts." The Eastern Orthodox pray to their guardian angels and above all to Michael and Gabriel. The Archangel Cathedral in Moscow dates back to the XIV century.: In 1333, the first Grand Prince of Moscow Ivan Kalita laid white stone church of St. Michael the Archangel.


Since its foundation up to the XVIII century, the Archangel Cathedral had been the resting place of the Moscow princes and kings. Tombstone princes, saying prayers and epitaphs in the white stone slabs placed under the arches of the church in order. Rurik dynasty tomb - the walls of the temple. The tombs of the Romanov dynasty - at the south-western and north-western pillars. The first Russian Tsar Ivan the Terrible and his two sons are buried in a special royal tomb, set in the altar of the cathedral.


Among the most revered shrines of the cathedral with the relics of St. Prince Michael of Chernigov, martyred in the Golden Horde and the Holy Prince Dmitry, the youngest son of Ivan the Terrible. The remains of saints are not committed to the earth, and placed in a special ark - crabs, designed for the worship of the faithful. Reliquary of Tsarevich Dmitry placed at the south-western pillar under a carved stone canopy.


The oldest icon in the iconostasis of the cathedral. Legend associates it with the name of the establishment of Eudocia, widow of Dmitry Donskoy. According to legend Evdokia commanded to write an icon who appeared to her in a dream the Archangel in memory of the Grand Prince Dmitry Donskoy. Artistic features of the image can be attributed to his performance in 1399 was in this year in the Archangel Cathedral in the work of famous master Theophanes, who came to Russia from Byzantium. The majestic figure of the angel-warrior in a scarlet cloak and armor, sword in hand, stands of shimmering golden background of the icon. Eighteen stamps framing mullion, are "acts" of the Archangel Michael, praising him as a warrior for the victory of good. The author managed to create the icons epic image of the "perfect perfect regiment commander heavenly powers", full of noble and invincible strength.




Archangel Michael with his deeds



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Guest So Say We All

Kolob is a star or planet described in the Book of Abraham of Mormon scripture revealed to Joesph Smith.


According to Joseph Smith, Jr. biographer Fawn Brodie, Smith's idea of Kolob may have been derived from the "throne of God" idea found in Thomas Dick's The Philosophy of a Future State, which Brodie said Smith "had recently been reading" before dictating the Book of Abraham, and which "made a lasting impression" on him.


Here is interesting trivia. Some of the elements of the two Battlestar Galactica science-fiction television shows seem to be derived from the Mormon beliefs of its creator and chief producer, Glen A. Larson. In both the original series from 1978, and the 2003 new series, the planet Kobol is the ancient and distant mother world of the entire human race and the planet where life began, and the "Lords of Kobol" are sacred figures to the human race. They are treated as elders or patriarchs in the old series, and versions of the Twelve Olympians in the new series. According to Jana Riess, author of What Would Buffy Do?, "Kobol" is an anagram of "Kolob", only one of many plot points Larson has borrowed from Mormonism.


According to Colonial scriptures, humans lived on Kobol with their gods, the Lords of Kobol. An unspecified conflict spurred the humans of the time to flee Kobol on board the Galleon in the face of "The Blaze". It was said that for any who return, Kobol would exact a price paid in blood.


Kobol is the location of the Tomb of Athena, located near the Gates of Hera. An ancient relic, the Arrow of Apollo, was required to gain entry to the temple ruin in which it is said clues could be found to finding the way to the thirteenth colony, Earth. Within the Tomb were statues representing each of the Twelve Tribes. When the arrow was placed on the statue representing Sagittarius, the location of Earth was revealed. Earth can see the twelve zodiac constellations which were imprinted on the original flags of the Twelve Colonies. Also, the Colonials recognized in the map a nebula that is visible to Earth; in reality, the Lagoon Nebula.



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The concept of a lost Thirteenth Tribe in Battle Star Galactica parallels the beliefs of the Latter Day Saints in this satire of a speech Mitt Romney certainly did not deliver.




Monday July 23, 2012 Romney’s address to the Knesset


At a presentation before Israel’s legislature, Mitt Romney confused his audience when he asked about “one of your Jewish tribes that immigrated to American thousands of years ago.”


“I’ve been exploring Jerusalem, this great city of yours, and have learned much about its people, but I have not been able to find any trace of the ancient writings of Nephi, Lehi, or any of the original authors of the book of Mormon,” Romney said.


“At first I thought he was playing a joke,” said Ehud Barak, Israel’s Minister of Defense. “And I was about to admonish him for making a joke about our religion. But then I realized he was actually being serious!”


Romney seemed surprised that his audience had not heard of the lost thirteenth tribe of Israel.


“I expected them to nod knowingly when I mentioned the Nephites and the Lamanites, the two subgroups who made up the lost tribe. But they seemed kind of shocked,” Romney said after his address.


Romney tried to make his hearers understand by going into more detail about the lost Jewish tribe:


“You know, the Nephites? And the Lamanites? Oh, come on, you must have studied this in your scriptures. You remember, the Lamanites were the ones who were turned black by your God because of their sin?”


“I confess, my duties in the government have made it harder for me to study the Torah regularly,” said Israeli Head of Benjamin Netanyahu. ”But I’m pretty sure that’s not in the scripture.”


Netanyahu’s confusion only grew when he googled the Mormon Church on his iPhone.


“I vaguely recalled hearing something about Mormonism, but it wasn’t until I looked it up online that I found out that they really believe that some tribe that none of us Jews has ever heard of somehow migrated to America in 600 BC. I looked at an article and found myself thinking ‘holy crap, is this actually a thing?’”


Romney concluded his discussion by promising to foster international communication between Israel and their “lost brothers across the Atlantic.”


To which Netanyahu replied, “Yeah, sure… that’d be great.”


Tuesday July 24, 2012


Romney’s Address to the Israeli Academy of Science


From the time of Moses to the present, religious scholars have debated the exact nature of the “Urim and Thummim,” objects described in Jewish and Christian scriptures which were kept in a pouch in the High Priest’s ephod and used to determine the will of God in difficult cases.


Some authorities have suggested that dice or sticks were kept in the pouch, which could be thrown down and interpreted based upon their relative positions. Others have suggested that two stones were in the pouch –one black and one white–and that the priest would reach into the bag with his eyes shut and pick out a stone. If he chose a black stone the answer from God was no, if a white stone, then the answer was yes.


No scholar has ever been able to produce sufficiently weighty arguments to settle the matter.


Now, thanks to Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney, the debate may finally come to end.



At a presentation to The Israeli Academy of Sciences, Romney explained to the distinguished scientists and academics in attendance that the solution to the problem was very simple and had been given by the founder of the Mormon Church, Joseph Smith, about 180 years ago.


Romney said to the group, “You see, Mr. Smith found some ancient plates with ancient writing on them, and was only able to decipher them because he found some huge colored spectacles along with the plates. When he put on the spectacles, he was able to read the ancient writing and from that came our book of Mormon. Smith taught us that those spectacles were nothing if not the Urim and Thummim you have been so concerned about. So there you go: problem solved.”


As his hearers sat in stunned silence, Romney said, “And you can rest assured that I will solve all of the world’s problems just like I just solved your ancient theological problem concerning the Urim and Thummim: with a combination of common sense and Mormonism.”

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Guest Esperanza
Because, as you are now, we once were. As we are now, you may become. - Seraph speaks to Starbuck (Dirk Benedict) of the Colonial Service, Battlestar Galactica, War of the Gods.





While returning in the shuttle, Starbuck and Sheba are overtaken by the same ship of lights, appearing inside the ship dressed all in white. Angelic beings lead them to Apollo's body. The angels, as Starbuck calls them, indicate that Apollo was not meant to die and is of great importance. They tell the pair that Iblis had broken their laws by killing someone who would not willingly follow him. They then ask Sheba if she is willing to sacrifice herself for Apollo's sake as he did for hers. She nods yes, crying. Through Valcon infusion the angels raise him from the dead and tell Starbuck that they are on the same side of a struggle - as humans are, the angels once were. The pilots are all returned to the fleet. Adama has a celebratory dinner where Apollo, Starbuck, and Sheba seem to have little recollection of what happened, except for a sense of light and goodness. A post-hypnotic suggestion causes the three pilots to spontaneously recite the navigational coordinates for "Earth Quadrant Alpha" - an apparent gift from the mysterious beings.



As man is God once was, as God is, man may be - LDS President Lorenzo Snow, Mormon Articles of Faith

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I spoke with two nice Latter Day Saints missionaries who visited my about what has been stated. It is true that Angel Michael is Adam. A confusion comes to mind is after Adam/Michael goes with God's plan and banishes Lucifer to Earth, Adam/Michael then goes down to Earth and is transformed into a mortal and is tricked by Lucifer into not following God's plan and is kicked out of the Garden of Eden/Adam-ondi-Ahman by God and lives out his life in exile, Adam/Michael naturally dies was then resurrected with a glorified body and became once again head of both the Angels and Man until Christ was transformed into a mortal and died on the cross and thus Atoned the sins of Adam/Michael. Christ was was then resurrected in his glorified body and became head of the Angels and Adam/Michael head of mankind. Both Adam/Michael, Christ, and other Glorified Angels still visit Earth on occasion and speak to prophets that will in turn become glorified Angels as well. In the final days Adam/Michael come back to Earth to blow the trumpet to Announce the second coming for Christ to all mankind.


I have located key excerpts to get a grasp of what is being said. I recommend going to the source.




Adam, the Archangel

Mark E. Petersen


The Church of Jesus Christ was well established in the time of Adam (see Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, comp. Joseph Fielding Smith, Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1938, pp. 157, 169). Men like Seth and Enos grew to become the early patriarchs of the Church, and through them a long line of priesthood leaders was established.

Adam held the keys of the First Presidency and stood directly after the Savior in authority (see Teachings, p. 168). He received those keys in the Creation, according to the Prophet Joseph Smith, who added, “Christ is the Great High Priest; Adam next” (Teachings, pp. 157–58).


Who was Adam that he was privileged to begin the human race here on earth? Had he been some very special personage in the premortal world?


Indeed, Adam was very special and very important. Before coming into mortality, he was known as Michael. The Prophet Joseph Smith clearly identifies both Adam and Michael as one and the same person, an angel, the chief angel, or archangel, of heaven, the special servant of God and Christ.


When Michael came into mortality he was known as Adam, the first man, but he was still his own self. Although he was given another name, that of Adam, he did not change his identity.


After his mortal death he resumed his position as an angel in the heavens, once again serving as the chief angel, or archangel, and took again his former name of Michael.


In his capacity as archangel, Adam, or Michael, will yet perform a mighty mission in the coming years, both before and after the Millennium. This is startling, but the scriptures declare it.


One important assignment that awaits him is to be the angel to sound the trumpet heralding the resurrection of the dead. The scripture reads, “Behold, verily I say unto you, before the earth shall pass away, Michael, mine archangel, shall sound his trump, and then shall all the dead awake, for their graves shall be opened, and they shall come forth” (D&C 29:26).


Orson F. Whitney

Conference Report

October 1925


Adam was the first to receive and obey the Gospel, revealed to him out of Eternity at the very beginning of Time. Since his day it has been upon the earth repeatedly, in a series of dispensations, of which this the greatest and the last. Adam presides over all the gospel dispensations, including the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times - he presides over them all, just as the President of the Church presides over all the Stakes of Zion and all the outside authority. Joesph Smith is the immediate head of this dispensation, and Adam is the general head of all. Standing next to the Church in Priesthood, whenever the divine power is revealed from heaven to earth, "It is by Adam's authority." So says Joesph Smith.


The world has not seen the last of Father Adam. He is coming again, as the Ancient of Days, to fulfill the prophecy of Daniel. He will come to the valley of Adam-ondi-Ahman, where the old he blessed his posterity, foretelling what should befall them to the latest generation. He will call a council and assemble his righteous descendants, to prepare them for the glorious advent of the King of Kings.


History of the Church 3:386 - 87

Joesph Smith Jr.


Daniel in his seventh chapter speaks of the Ancient of Days; he means the oldest man, our Father Adam, Michael, he will call his children together and hold a council with them to prepare them for the coming of the Son of Man. He (Adam) is the father of the human family, and presides over the spirits of all men, and all that have had the keys must stand before him in this grand council. This may take place before some of us leave this stage of action. The Son of Man stands before him, and there is given him glory and dominion. Adam delivers up his stewardship to Christ, that which was delivered to him as holding the keys of the universe, but retains standing as head of the human family.


Wilford Woodruff


Again President Young said Joesph the Prophet told me the garden of Eden was in Jackson County Missiouri and when Adam was out of the garden of Eden He went about 40 miles to the Place which we Named Adam Ondi Ahman and there built an Alter of Stone and offered Sacrifice. That Alter remains to this day. I saw it as Adam left it as many others, and through all the revolutions of the world that Alter had not been disturbed.


Today 3000 acres Adam-ondi-Ahman is owned and maintained as a historic site by the LDS Church and remains largely undeveloped farmland. According to a revelation declared by Smith, Adam met his children at the site three years before his death to bestow his blessing. LDS Church leader Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. has stated that before the Second Coming, Adam will convene another meeting there to turn the government of the human family officially to Jesus Christ.


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Guest TruthSeeker

The Articles of Faith 2


We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.


Gen. 1:26


And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.


The Book of Abraham

Chapter 5:7


And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.


Doctrine and Covenants

Section 107:54 - 55


And the Lord appeared unto them, and they rose up and blessed Adam, and called him Michael, the prince, the archangel.


And the Lord administered comfort unto Adam, and said unto him: I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever.


Doctrine and Covenants Section 78:16


Who hath appointed Michael your prince, and established his feet, and set him upon high, and given unto him the keys of salvation under the counsel and direction of the Holy One, who is without beginning of days or end of life.


Doctrine and Covenants

Section 27:11


And also with Michael, or Adam, the father of all, the prince of all, the ancient of days;


Doctrine and Covenants

Section 128:21


And again, the voice of God in the chamber of old Father Whitmer, in Fayette, Seneca county, and at sundry times, and in divers places through all the travels and tribulations of this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! And the voice of Michael, the archangel; the voice of Gabriel, and of Raphael, and of divers angels, from Michael or Adam down to the present time, all declaring their dispensation, their rights, their keys, their honors, their majesty and glory, and the power of their priesthood; giving line upon line, precept upon precept; here a little, and there a little; giving us consolation by holding forth that which is to come, confirming our hope!


Book of Moses 3:23

And Adam said: This I know now is bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of man.


Book of Moses 4:26


And Adam called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all living; for thus have I, the Lord God, called the first of all women, which are many.


Book of Moses 5:9 -11


And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am the Only Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.


And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.


And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.

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I spoke with two nice Latter Day Saints missionaries who visited my about what has been stated. It is true that Angel Michael is Adam. A confusion comes to mind is after Adam/Michael goes with God's plan and banishes Lucifer to Earth, Adam/Michael then goes down to Earth and is transformed into a mortal and is tricked by Lucifer into not following God's plan and is kicked out of the Garden of Eden/Adam-ondi-Ahman by God and lives out his life in exile, Adam/Michael naturally dies was then resurrected with a glorified body and became once again head of both the Angels and Man until Christ was transformed into a mortal and died on the cross and thus Atoned the sins of Adam/Michael. Christ was was then resurrected in his glorified body and became head of the Angels and Adam/Michael head of mankind. Both Adam/Michael, Christ, and other Glorified Angels still visit Earth on occasion and speak to prophets that will in turn become glorified Angels as well. In the final days Adam/Michael come back to Earth to blow the trumpet to Announce the second coming for Christ to all mankind.


Made the decision to attend LDS Christmas Service today. I enjoyed the music very much. I imagined a choir of angels singing before God. After service I attended Sunday School where the Connecticut tragedy was discussed. It is here that I realized the power of family, community, and more importantly the Creator is in helping innocent victims work through their emotions of being harmed. I then attended an Aaronic Priesthood class for men.


Luke 8:12


Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved.


The class was very inspirational to me. I listened to the importance a father's role with his child in teaching morality. I could not help from noticing how well kept the clergy men are. All were neatly shaved, and had nice suits on. The brethren shared inspirational stories on the moral lessons their fathers had taught them. I drifted off to 'Leave it to Beaver.'



I always admired the wisdom of Ward Cleaver and realized the men in the room shared values that I considered lost.


After service I spoke to one of the Elders about some of my thoughts about what I quoted above.


In the Beginning, Jesus through the power of God created the universe. God then a presented plan to Jesus, Lucifer, Michael, Gabriel and the rest of his spirits about what he wanted to for them in this new world. This plan included getting a physical body like his. But, through this process they would forget all that was taught to them. Lucifer/Satan and other spirits did not like the plan, thus they were cast out of heaven to keep their spiritual form for eternity. The first spirit to be sent down was Michael, who was given a immortal body named Adam. The name of the next spirit sent down is not known, but the immortal body given was named Eve. Now Adam and Eve had no idea they were spirits in a formal life when they encountered Lucifer/Satan in the Garden of Eden. Lucifer/Satan who knew fully what they were before and what they had become. Lucifer/Satan was able to use the knowledge and power given to him by God to trick Adam and Eve to bite the forbidden fruit and become mortal. What Lucifer/Satan did not know that his trick was part of God's plan. For if Adam and Eve did not eat the forbidden fruit, then they would not have become mortal and be able create offspring. Adam was raised to a glorified Angel with a body and temporary ruler of Angels and Men until the coming of Christ who with the power of the Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost would be born of the once spirit, then mortal Virgin Mary, who was later glorified as well. Christ death redeemed all Spirits of the curse of Adam/Michael and Eve's transgression to those that believe in him and follow his teachings. It is believed that Holy Spirit/Holy Ghost will get a glorified body at some point as well.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Mormons tell me that God has a glorified body. But, reading John Chapter 4 would reveal otherwise.



4:19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see that you are a prophet.


4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you people say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.”


4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.


4:22 You people worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews.


4:23 But a time is coming – and now is here – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers.


4:24 God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.


4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); “whenever he comes, he will tell us everything.


4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am He.


I Timothy refers God as invisible


1:12 I am grateful to the one who has strengthened me, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he considered me faithful in putting me into ministry,


1:13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor, and an arrogant 16 man. But I was treated with mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief,


1:14 and our Lord’s grace was abundant, bringing faith and love in Christ Jesus.


1:15 This saying is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners” – and I am the worst of them!


1:16 But here is why I was treated with mercy: so that in me as the worst, Christ Jesus could demonstrate his utmost patience, as an example for those who are going to believe in him for eternal life.


1:17 Now to the eternal king, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever!





Colossians 1 Chapter 1


1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,


1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.


1:17 He himself is before all things and all things are held together in him.


1:18 He is the head of the body, the church, as well as the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead, so that he himself may become first in all things.


1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in the Son


1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself by making peace through the blood of his cross – through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.


Colossians 1 Chapter 2


2:8 Be careful not to allow anyone to captivate you through an empty, deceitful philosophy that is according to human traditions and the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.


2:9 For in him all the fullness of deity lives in bodily form,


2:10 and you have been filled in him, who is the head over every ruler and authority.


When I questioned the Mormons about the bible stating the God is invisible. They quoted from scripture verses that stated otherwise.

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The idea that everyone can ascend to a station of being that God was before and thus manifest God' to a greater glory appears like a pyramid scheme of Pride to me. But, with God everything is possible. I know that I know little to fully judge the The King Follett Sermon of Joesph Smith.


The King Follett Sermon

By Joseph Smith, Jr.

April 7, 1844


God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. If the veil were rent today, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by His power, was to make himself visible—I say, if you were to see him today, you would see him like a man in form—like yourselves in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked and conversed with Him, as one man talks and communes with another.


In order to understand the subject of the dead, for consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary we should understand the character and being of God and how He came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see.


These ideas are incomprehensible to some, but they are simple. It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, and to know that we may converse with Him as one man converses with another, and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; and I will show it from the Bible.


Eternal Life to Know God and Jesus Christ


I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease forever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon!) The scriptures inform us that Jesus said, as the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power—to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious—in a manner to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it you do not believe the Bible. The scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. Here, then, is eternal life—to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming His name, is not trifling with you or me.


The Righteous to Dwell in Everlasting Burnings


These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved, they shall rise again to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more, but they shall be heirs of God and joint heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it? To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds came rolling into existence. My Father worked out His kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to My Father, so that He may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt Him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take His place, and thereby become exalted myself. So that Jesus treads in the tracks of His Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all His children. It is plain beyond disputation, and you thus learn some of the first principles of the gospel, about which so much hath been said.





The Bible does state that through Christ's sacrifice we all become heirs of God with the holy spirit. But, I do not accept we will have equal power with Jesus or our Almighty Father. I do not believe that before Christ died on the cross that the Mormon revelation of Adam being being the first prophet was transformed to his former self as Michael the Archangel in a more powerful glorified form. I do not believe that before Christ died on the cross that the Mormon revelation of Noah being being transformed to his former self as Gabriel the Archangel in a more powerful glorified form. For this contradicts scripture stating that it was only after Christ's Atonement for our sins that we were set us free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children. Because Jesus lives, we live with the certainty of eternal Salvation if we truly want it.


Romans 8


8:12 So then, brothers and sisters, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh


8:13 (for if you live according to the flesh, you will die), but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live.


8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God.


8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption, by whom we cry, “Abba, Father.”


8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to our spirit that we are God’s children.


8:17 And if children, then heirs (namely, heirs of God and also fellow heirs with Christ) – if indeed we suffer with him so we may also be glorified with him.


8:18 For I consider that our present sufferings cannot even be compared to the glory that will be revealed to us.


8:19 For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God.


8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility – not willingly but because of God who subjected it – in hope


8:21 that the creation itself will also be set free from the bondage of decay into the glorious freedom of God’s children.


8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers together until now.


8:23 Not only this, but we ourselves also, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we eagerly await our adoption, the redemption of our bodies.


8:24 For in hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope, because who hopes for what he sees?


8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with endurance.


1 Peter 1


1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,


1:4 that is, into an inheritance imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. It is reserved in heaven for you,


1:5 who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.


John 17


17:20 “I am not praying only on their behalf, but also on behalf of those who believe in me through their testimony,


17:21 that they will all be one, just as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. I pray that they will be in us, so that the world will believe that you sent me.


17:22 The glory you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one


17:23 I in them and you in me – that they may be completely one, so that the world will know that you sent me, and you have loved them just as you have loved me.


17:24 “Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, so that they can see my glory that you gave me because you loved me before the creation of the world.


17:25 Righteous Father, even if the world does not know you, I know you, and these men know that you sent me.


17:26 I made known your name to them, and I will continue to make it known, so that the love you have loved me with may be in them, and I may be in them.”



Joesph Smith revelation reminds me of Zaphon, the Canaanite version of Olympus, was the “mountain of assembly” where the gods met.


Isaiah 14


14:12 Look how you have fallen from the sky,

O shining one, son of the dawn!

You have been cut down to the ground,

O conqueror of the nations!


14:13 You said to yourself,

“I will climb up to the sky.

Above the stars of El

I will set up my throne.

I will rule on the mountain of assembly

on the remote slopes of Zaphon.


14:14 I will climb up to the tops of the clouds;

I will make myself like the Most High!”


14:15 But you were brought down to Sheol,

to the remote slopes of the pit.


Manly P. Hall, another 33rd Degree Mason, writes, "Man is a God in the making


Be still -- and know -- that I am God ... That I AM GOD -- the final recognition of the All in All, the unity of the Self with the Cosmos -- the cognition of the DIVINITY OF THE SELF!" [Emphasis in the original; George H. Steinmetz, The Lost Keys of Freemasonry, Richmond, Virginia, Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, 1923, p. 92

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John 15


15:1 “I am the true vine and my Father is the gardener.


15:2 He takes away every branch that does not bear fruit in me. He prunes every branch that bears fruit so that it will bear more fruit.


15:3 You are clean already because of the word that I have spoken to you.


15:4 Remain in me, and I will remain in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it remains in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me.


15:5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. The one who remains in me – and I in him – bears much fruit, because apart from me you can accomplish nothing.


15:6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is thrown out like a branch, and dries up; and such branches are gathered up and thrown into the fire, and are burned up.


15:7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you want, and it will be done for you.


15:8 My Father is honored by this, that you bear much fruit and show that you are my disciples.


15:9 “Just as the Father has loved me, I have also loved you; remain in my love.


15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commandments and remain in his love.


15:11 I have told you these things so that my joy may be in you, and your joy may be complete.


15:12 My commandment is this – to love one another just as I have loved you.


15:13 No one has greater love than this – that one lays down his life for his friends.


15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command you.


15:15 I no longer call you slaves, because the slave does not understand what his master is doing. But I have called you friends, because I have revealed to you everything I heard from my Father.


15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit, fruit that remains, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.


15:17 This I command you – to love one another.



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This is first words of wisdom that I have gained from the Book of Mormon that I deem to be true moral wisdom that can be applied to to many situations where power has been given.


The Doctrine and Covenants : Section 121


34 Behold, there are many called, but few are chosen. And why are they not chosen?


35 Because their hearts are set so much upon the things of this world, and aspire to the honors of men, that they do not learn this one lesson


36 That the rights of the priesthood are inseparably connected with the powers of heaven, and that the powers of heaven cannot be controlled nor handled only upon the principles of righteousness.


37 That they may be conferred upon us, it is true; but when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn, Amen to the priesthood or the authority of that man.


38 Behold, ere he is aware, he is left unto himself, to kick against the pricks, to persecute the saints, and to fight against God.


39 We have learned by sad experience that it is the nature and disposition of almost all men, as soon as they get a little authority, as they suppose, they will immediately begin to exercise unrighteous dominion.


40 Hence many are called, but few are chosen.


41 No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;


42 By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile


43 Reproving* betimes** with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved*, lest he esteem*** thee to be his enemy;


44 That he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of death.


45 Let thy bowels also be full of charity towards all men, and to the household of faith, and let virtue garnish thy thoughts unceasingly; then shall thy confidence wax strong in the presence of God; and the doctrine of the priesthood shall distil upon thy soul as the dews from heaven.


46 The Holy Ghost shall be thy constant companion, and thy scepter an unchanging scepter of righteousness and truth; and thy dominion shall be an everlasting dominion, and without compulsory means it shall flow unto thee forever and ever.



*Reproving is to speak disapprovingly to (a person); rebuke or scold


**Betimes acting upon early; once in a while; on occasion.


***Esteem is to regard as; consider


43 Reproving* betimes** with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved*, lest he esteem*** thee to be his enemy;


I would take this to mean


Scolding a transgressor should only be done only on occasion when moved by the Holy Spirit, then followed by an increase display of love, unless the person regards you as an enemy.


when we undertake to cover our sins, or to gratify our pride, our vain ambition, or to exercise control or dominion or compulsion upon the souls of the children of men, in any degree of unrighteousness, behold, the heavens withdraw themselves; the Spirit of the Lord is grieved; and when it is withdrawn


I would take this to mean


We lose the power of the Holy Spirit when we try to use it in a sinful way harm our fellow man.


By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile


I would take this to mean


The power of the priesthood in the Mormon faith can be given only to those that a pure in the knowledge and following the scripture in its full intent.


Therefore I take this whole passage to mean.


That Priests of the Latter Day Saints must be pure in the Holy Spirit and only on occasion scold the transgressor in a constructive way that will better their relationship with God. Further, a Priest cannot harm or condone harm on any human being even if the transgressor dishonors them.


The enemy part I will need to pray upon.

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I see no way a priest of any Christian or Mormon faith can go to war.


Matthew 5


5:38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.


5:39 But I say to you, do not resist the evildoer. But whoever strikes you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well.


5:40 And if someone wants to sue you and to take your tunic, give him your coat also.


5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two.


5:42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not reject the one who wants to borrow from you.


5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor’ and ‘hate your enemy.


5:44 But I say to you, love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you,


5:45 so that you may be like your Father in heaven, since he causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.


5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Even the tax collectors do the same, don’t they?


5:47 And if you only greet your brothers, what more do you do? Even the Gentiles do the same, don’t they?


5:48 So then, be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Matthew 6


6:14 “For if you forgive others their sins, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.


6:15 But if you do not forgive others, your Father will not forgive you your sins.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Over several months now I have spoken with various members of the Mormon faith that have visited me at my home.


We come to major differences.


1. Mormons believe God the Father was once spirit, then became man, and now is glorified. As a Catholic I believe that God the Father always was, but Jesus is both God and glorified man.


2. Mormons believe that the Holy Spirit will one day become man, and then get glorified like Jesus, and God the Father. As a Catholic I believe the Holy Spirit is already God.


3. Mormons believe in pre-existence of the soul. Catholics and Jews do not.


The Doctrine and Covenants


Section 93


29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.


Jeremiah 1


1:5 “Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart.

I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”



Zechariah 12


1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The saying of the LORD, who stretched forth the heavens, and laid the foundation of the earth, and formed the spirit of man within him


4. Mormons believe that we become gods equal to Jesus. Catholics believe that after death we become glorified beings.


Doctrine and Covenants 88:107


107 And then shall the angels be crowned with the glory of his might, and the saints shall be filled with his glory, and receive their inheritance and be made equal with him.


Genesis 3


3:1 Now the serpent was more shrewd than any of the wild animals that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Is it really true that God said, ‘You must not eat from any tree of the orchard’?”


3:2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit from the trees of the orchard;


3:3 but concerning the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the orchard God said, ‘You must not eat from it, and you must not touch it, or else you will die.’”


3:4 The serpent said to the woman, “Surely you will not die,


3:5 for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will open and you will be like divine beings who know good and evil.”


3:22 And the Lord God said, “Now that the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”


Job 1


1:6 Now the day came when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord – and Satan also arrived among them.


1:7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” And Satan answered the Lord, “From roving about on the earth, and from walking back and forth across it.”


1:8 So the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered 41 my servant Job? There is no one like him on the earth, a pure and upright man, one who fears God and turns away from evil.”


Job 38


38:7 when the morning stars sang in chorus,

and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Is it possible to bridge these divergent ideas? I am not sure. Sons of God in the Old Testament I thought the phrase to mean angels. But, Mormons believe Sons of God are lesser deities. Most Jewish commentaries and translations describe the Nephilim as being from the offspring of "sons of nobles", rather than from "sons of God" or "sons of angels". This is also the rendering suggested in the Targum Onqelos, Symmachus and the Samaritan Targum which read "sons of the rulers", where Targum Neophyti reads "sons of the judges".


Are the Sons of God to be interpreted as people of nobility, angels, lesser gods, those that believe in God, or all men and women? Maybe it is all the choices. Through the power of the Holy Spirit I hope to find the truth.

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Guest Thomas

Look at the similarities




One can easily see the similarities between Masonic and Mormon rites. The penalty for revealing the First Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, Smith copied from the penalty of disclosing the first degree (Entered Apprentice) of Freemasonry.


Mormon text: "We, and each of us, covenant and promise that we will not reveal any of the secrets of this, the first token of the Aaronic priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign or penalty. Should we do so, we agree that our throats be cut from ear to ear and our tongues torn out by their roots" (W. M. Paden, Temple Mormonism, 1931, p. 18).


Mason text: "I will . . . never reveal any part or parts, art or arts, point or points of the secret arts and mysteries of ancient Freemasonry . . . binding myself under no less penalty than to have my throat cut across, my tongue torn out by the roots. . . ." (William Morgan, Freemasonry Exposed, 1827, pp. 21-22)


Compare the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood with the Second Degree (Fellow Craft) oath:

Mormon text: "We and each of us do covenant and promise that we will not reveal the secrets of this, the Second Token of the Aaronic Priesthood, with its accompanying name, sign, grip, or penalty. Should we do so, we agree to have our breasts cut open and our hearts and vitals torn from our bodies and given to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field" (Paden, p. 20)


Mason text: "I . . . most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear . . . that I will not give the degree of a Fellow Craft Mason to any one of an inferior degree, nor to any other being in the known world . . . binding myself under no less penalty than to have my left breast torn open and my heart and vitals taken from thence . . . to become a prey to the wild beasts of the field, and vulture of the air. . . ." (Morgan, p. 52).

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  • 2 weeks later...

I really do not think fraternal organizations are that bad. I am not a Mason, but I know some and they are good righteous people. One came to my own defense when I needed it most. I am very grateful for his help. That is one reason why I focus on building bridges of understanding.


My Mormon friends have not given up on me and I have not given up on them. During our discourse about the Prophets I had epiphany and asked if the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints considers Jesus Christ a Prophet. At first they did not know. A week later they came back and stated that indeed Jesus Christ is a Prophet. They passed me the following scripture verses.


John 6


6:1 After this 1 Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee (also called the Sea of Tiberias).


6:2 A large crowd was following him because they were observing the miraculous signs he was performing on the sick.


6:3 So Jesus went on up the mountainside and sat down there with his disciples.


6:4 (Now the Jewish feast of the Passover was near.)


6:5 Then Jesus, when he looked up and saw that a large crowd was coming to him, said to Philip, “Where can we buy bread so that these people may eat?”


6:6 (Now Jesus said this to test him, for he knew what he was going to do.)


6:7 Philip replied, “Two hundred silver coins worth of bread would not be enough for them, for each one to get a little.”


6:8 One of Jesus’ disciples, Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, said to him,


6:9 “Here is a boy who has five barley loaves and two fish, but what good are these for so many people?”


6:10 Jesus said, “Have the people sit down.” (Now there was a lot of grass in that place.) So the men sat down, about five thousand in number.


6:11 Then Jesus took the loaves, and when he had given thanks, he distributed the bread to those who were seated. He then did the same with the fish, 16 as much as they wanted.


6:12 When they were all satisfied, Jesus said to his disciples, “Gather up the broken pieces that are left over, so that nothing is wasted.”


6:13 So they gathered them up and filled twelve baskets with broken pieces from the five barley loaves left over by the people who had eaten.


6:14 Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.


6:15 Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.


Now this is interesting, but it only refers to the people calling Jesus a prophet like Moses. He does not respond like other times when asked if he was the Messiah.


Deuteronomy 18


18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you – from your fellow Israelites; you must listen to him.


18:16 This accords with what happened at Horeb in the day of the assembly. You asked the Lord your God: “Please do not make us hear the voice of the Lord our God any more or see this great fire any more lest we die.”


18:17 The Lord then said to me, “What they have said is good.


18:18 I will raise up a prophet like you for them from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them whatever I command.


18:19 I will personally hold responsible anyone who then pays no attention to the words that prophet speaks in my name.


18:20 “But if any prophet presumes to speak anything in my name that I have not authorized him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die.


18:21 Now if you say to yourselves, ‘How can we tell that a message is not from the Lord?’


18:22 whenever a prophet speaks in my name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not spoken it; the prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him.”


This is a tough one for me. If Mormons believe that they will become Gods, then does that mean they are violating verse 18:20?


Besides Islam I never really heard of Jesus being called a Prophet. At Church today I asked a man who is studying in the seminary about how the Mormons consider Jesus a Prophet. He surprised me and said Catholics also believe that Christ was a Prophet. In addition, he said that Catholic Priests are in the Order of Melchizedek. When he told me this I was shocked at my ignorance. He stated that Catholics believe that Jesus is Priest, Prophet, King, and the Son of God. Learn something new every day.


Thank You Jesus.


During the trial before Pilate, on being questioned whether he was a king, Jesus at first denied that he was a king in the earthly and political sense. Then on being asked a second time, he replied: "You say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world, to bear witness to the truth" (Jn 18:37). This reply links the royal and priestly mission of the Messiah with the essential characteristic of the prophetic mission. The prophet is called and sent to bear witness to the truth. As a witness to the truth he speaks in God's name. In a certain sense he is the voice of God. Such was the mission of the prophets sent by God to Israel throughout the centuries. It is particularly in the figure of David, king and prophet, that the prophetic characteristic is united to the royal mission.



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John 3 - Codex Sinaiticus


3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes on him might not perish, but have life eternal.


John 3 - The NET Bible


3:16 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.


John 3 - The Hebrew Names Version (HNV) of the World English Bible is a Modern English update of the American Standard Version.


3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


The terms above show differences in translations of the Bible.


Intentionally or not intentionally translators of great works can alter or misrepresent words but if one follows the Spirit he or she can get a clearer sense of the the true meaning of scripture.


I profess that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are one: the Father is of none, neither begotten, nor proceeding; the Son is eternally begotten not made of the Father; the Holy Spirit eternally not begotten and not proceeding from the Father and the Son.


God has made me with a physical body with an indwelling spirit.


Colossians 1


1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation,


1:16 for all things in heaven and on earth were created by him – all things, whether visible or invisible, whether thrones or dominions, whether principalities or powers – all things were created through him and for him.


1:17 He himself is before all things and all things are held together in him.


1:18 He is the head of the body, the church, as well as the beginning, the firstborn from among the dead, so that he himself may become first in all things.


1:19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in the Son


1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself by making peace through the blood of his cross – through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.




John 1


1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory – the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father.


1:15 John testified about him and shouted out, “This one was the one about whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’”


1:16 For we have all received from his fullness one gracious gift after another.


1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.


1:18 No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.


John 20


20:19 On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the disciples had gathered together and locked the doors of the place because they were afraid of the Jewish leaders. Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.”


20:20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord.


20:21 So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. Just as the Father has sent me, I also send you.”


20:22 And after he said this, he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.


20:23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven; if you retain anyone’s sins, they are retained.”




Here is a poem I wrote in the past.




I am the wind you cannot breathe, until I touch your face.

Once you feel essence of this simple thought, look pass the complex termed dead to believe.

I am always with you.

I have given your soul and it's shell the gift of choice to see.

The gift of choice is more then left or right.

Choice is a chaotic path leading

you nowhere or to the light of my side.

Your last breath will be the beginning of time. Look to other's that cross your path.

A sign will shine in gentle light.

There is no beginning, there is no end, there is only me.

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