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#21 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:31 PM

Read from the scroll that was dated thirteen hundred years before Mohammed. How could he know the earth was round? You must then follow the words of the Prophet Isaiah if you believe that scientific observations make one a prophet. What does that make Democritus, Epicurus, Linus Pauling, Paul Adrien Maurice Dirac, Jacques Monod, Alan Mathison Turing, Francis Harry Compton Crick, Claude Elwood Shannon, Peter Higgs, Carl Sagan, and Stephen Hawking. Under your way of thinking these atheists should be considered prophets. These visionaries were perfectly clear in their thoughts on the unknown. But, they did not predict future events.

It takes more than proving a theory of the unknown to make one a prophet with Allah.

Isaiah 40
 

40:12 Who has measured out the waters in the hollow of his hand,

or carefully measured the sky,

or carefully weighed the soil of the earth,

or weighed the mountains in a balance,

or the hills on scales?

40:13 Who comprehends the mind of the Lord,

or gives him instruction as his counselor?

40:14 From whom does he receive directions?

Who teaches him the correct way to do things,

or imparts knowledge to him,

or instructs him in skillful design?

40:15 Look, the nations are like a drop in a bucket;

they are regarded as dust on the scales.

He lifts the coastlands as if they were dust.

40:16 Not even Lebanon could supply enough firewood for a sacrifice;

its wild animals would not provide enough burnt offerings.

40:17 All the nations are insignificant before him;

they are regarded as absolutely nothing.

40:18 To whom can you compare God?

To what image can you liken him?

40:19 A craftsman casts an idol;

a metalsmith overlays it with gold

and forges silver chains for it.

40:20 To make a contribution one selects wood that will not rot;

he then seeks a skilled craftsman

to make an idol that will not fall over.

40:21 Do you not know?

Do you not hear?

Has it not been told to you since the very beginning?

Have you not understood from the time the earths foundations were made?

40:22 He is the one who sits enthroned above the circle of the earth;

its inhabitants are like grasshoppers before him.

He is the one who stretches out the sky like a thin curtain,

and spreads it out like a pitched tent.

40:23 He is the one who reduces rulers to nothing;

he makes the earths leaders insignificant.

40:24 Indeed, they are barely planted;

yes, they are barely sown;

yes, they barely take root in the earth,

and then he blows on them, causing them to dry up,

and the wind carries them away like straw.

40:25 To whom can you compare me? Whom do I resemble?

says the Holy One.

40:26 Look up at the sky!

Who created all these heavenly lights?

He is the one who leads out their ranks;

he calls them all by name.

Because of his absolute power and awesome strength,

not one of them is missing.

40:27 Why do you say, Jacob,

Why do you say, Israel,

The Lord is not aware of what is happening to me,

My God is not concerned with my vindication?

40:28 Do you not know?

Have you not heard?

The Lord is an eternal God,

the creator of the whole earth.

He does not get tired or weary;

there is no limit to his wisdom.

40:29 He gives strength to those who are tired;

to the ones who lack power, he gives renewed energy.

40:30 Even youths get tired and weary;

even strong young men clumsily stumble.

40:31 But those who wait for the Lords help find renewed strength;

they rise up as if they had eagles wings,

they run without growing weary,

they walk without getting tired.


To be bound by real world observation is to not understand the dynamic change of scientific thought and what is later called myth.




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#22 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 04:48 PM

Finding God is more difficult that understanding His creation. But, you relegate those that have the gift of foresight with what truly is prophecy.

What about Baudhāyana? A Hindu man who lived 1600 years before Mohammed who understood and gave a value of pi. Is he a prophet?

What about Charaka? This Hindu lived 900 years before Mohammed. He was the first physician to present the concept of digestion, metabolism and immunity.

What about Pingala? A Hindu man who lived 800 years before Mohammed. He understood the binary numeral system. Is he a prophet?

Manusmriti was written 700 years before Mohammed. Does this make the writer a prophet to you?

The first germ of life was developed by water and heat.' (Manusmriti - Book I, sloka 8,9)

Water ascends towards the sky in vapors; from the sun it descends in rain, from the rains are born the plants, and from the plants, animals. (Manusmriti - Book III, sloka 76)

Or maybe the author of the Brahmana should be considered a prophet to your thinking. He was around 1200 years before Mohammed.

“The sun never sets or rises. When people think the sun is setting, he only changes about after reaching the end of the day and makes night below and day to what is on the other side. Then, when people think he rises in the morning, he only shifts himself about after reaching the end of the day night, and makes day below and night to what is on the other side. In truth, he does not see at all.” - Brahmanas

I am also sure you are aware of the Rigveda that was written 2600 years before Mohammed that claimed one cycle of existence is around 311 trillion years and the life of one universe around 8 billion years. This Universal cycle is preceded by an infinite number of universes and to be followed by another infinite number of universes. Includes an infinite number of universes at one given time. I close my eyes and think of this profound thinker who searched, but never found the true Creator.

Nasadiya Sukta

Then even nothingness was not, nor existence,
There was no air then, nor the heavens beyond it.
What covered it? Where was it? In whose keeping
Was there then cosmic water, in depths unfathomed?

Then there was neither death nor immortality
nor was there then the torch of night and day.
The One breathed windlessly and self-sustaining.
There was that One then, and there was no other.

At first there was only darkness wrapped in darkness.
All this was only unillumined water.
That One which came to be, enclosed in nothing,
arose at last, born of the power of heat.

In the beginning desire descended on it -
that was the primal seed, born of the mind.
The sages who have searched their hearts with wisdom
know that which is is kin to that which is not.

And they have stretched their cord across the void,
and know what was above, and what below.
Seminal powers made fertile mighty forces.
Below was strength, and over it was impulse.

But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

Whence all creation had its origin,
he, whether he fashioned it or whether he did not,
he, who surveys it all from highest heaven,
he knows - or maybe even he does not know.

I wonder why Mohammed wrote the Earth was created first?


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#23 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 31 December 2013 - 06:13 PM

Just so you understand, I also know that Jesus was not born on December 25. It possibly was around the end of September. These two authors already wrote about the subject:
 

The biblical accounts point to the fall of the year as the most likely time of Jesus' birth, based on the conception and birth of John the Baptist.

Since Elizabeth (John's mother) was in her sixth month of pregnancy when Jesus was conceived (Luke 1:24-36), we can determine the approximate time of year Jesus was born if we know when John was born. John's father, Zacharias, was a priest serving in the Jerusalem temple during the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5
). Historical calculations indicate this course of service corresponded to June 13-19 in that year ( The Companion Bible , 1974, Appendix 179, p. 200).

It was during this time of temple service that Zacharias learned that he and his wife, Elizabeth, would have a child (Luke 1:8-13). After he completed his service and traveled home, Elizabeth conceived (Luke 1:23-24). Assuming John's conception took place near the end of June, adding nine months brings us to the end of March as the most likely time for John's birth. Adding another six months (the difference in ages between John and Jesus (Luke 1:35-36)) brings us to the end of September as the likely time of Jesus' birth.

http://www.ucg.org/b...5-christmas-day



The most loudly touted theory about the origins of the Christmas date(s) is that it was borrowed from pagan celebrations. The Romans had their mid-winter Saturnalia festival in late December; barbarian peoples of northern and western Europe kept holidays at similar times. To top it off, in 274 C.E., the Roman emperor Aurelian established a feast of the birth of Sol Invictus (the Unconquered Sun), on December 25. Christmas, the argument goes, is really a spin-off from these pagan solar festivals. According to this theory, early Christians deliberately chose these dates to encourage the spread of Christmas and Christianity throughout the Roman world: If Christmas looked like a pagan holiday, more pagans would be open to both the holiday and the God whose birth it celebrated.

http://www.biblicala...came-christmas/


The Bible does not command anyone to celebrate the birth of Christ. Just as the Quran does not force its believers to celebrate the birth of Mohammed. We do this of our own free will. The date is not important.

Men put churches and mosques over temples. Where you worship is not important.

 

temple_mount.jpg

 

It is how you worship that is important. Yet, endless amounts of blood spill over the ownership of these material structures. It reminds me of when I was a boy playing king of the hill with my friends.

 

Christians and Islam replaced pagan and Jewish dates with their own form of celebration to prevent future conflict.
 

The fasting for Ashura (10th of Muharram) originated from a Quraish Pagan practice. Ramadan fasting came later from Sabian tradition. Sabians are mentioned in several verses of the Quran [al-Baqarah 2:62], [al-Hajj 22:17] , [al-Maa’idah 5:69] along with Christians and Jewish. Sabians, a non-Muslim Iraqi tribe, believed in monotheism, observed fasting 30 days a year, and prayed 5 times a day.

Not only Ramadan fasting, other Pagan rituals were also Islamized. The Ka’aba in Mecca was a center of idol-worship. 360 idols were kept in the Ka’aba. According to Hadith Bukhari 3:43:658 Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: The Prophet entered Mecca and (at that time) there were three hundred-and-sixty idols around the Ka’aba. He started stabbing the idols with a stick he had in his hand and reciting: “Truth (Islam) has come and Falsehood (disbelief) has vanished.

 

http://freethoughtbl...rab-festival-2/



I celebrate the birth of the only sinless man this planet has known who preached the power of forgiveness.


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#24 eninn

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Posted 04 January 2014 - 12:08 AM

9. Verily, this Qur’an guides to that which is most just and right and gives glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allah and His Messenger, Muhammad , etc.). who work deeds of righteousness, that they shall have a great reward (Paradise).

Surah Al-Isra

 

These are the Verses of the Clear Book (the Qur’an that makes clear the legal and illegal things, legal laws, a guidance and a blessing).

 

2. Verily, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur’an in order that you may understand.

 

3. We relate unto you (Muhammad ) the best of stories through Our Revelations unto you, of this Qur’an. And before this (i.e. before the coming of Divine Inspiration to you), you were among those who knew nothing about it (the Qur’an).

Surah Yusuf

 

Sura Al-Baqarah

 

23. “And if you are in doubt of what We have sent down to Our (faithful) Servant (Muhammad), then bring forth one Sura the like thereof, and call your witnesses other than Allah, if you are truthful.”

24. “And if you do not do so, and you will never do it, then fear the Fire whose fuel is People and Stones, prepared for the infidels.”

 

The reputation of the Holy Qur’an cleft the bonds of time and distance and influenced beyond them. The miracles of the prophets before the Prophet of Islam (p.b.u.h.), and even his own miracles save the Qur’an, happened in a special period of time, at a definite place and for a specific group of people. For example : the utterances of the holy little child of Virgin Mary, and raising the dead by Jesus (a.s.) were done at some definite times and places before the eyes of some particular people. And we know that regarding the things that depend on time and place, the farther we move away from them correlatively the weaker they become. This is one of the properties of affairs related to time.

 

But,

 

the Holy Qur’an does not depend on time and place. Its brilliance and authority that illuminated the darkness of Arabia fourteen centuries ago continues unwaveringly to shine with its original splendor. Besides that, the passing of time, the advancement of science and the development of information have made it possible for us to understand it and take its advantages even more than the nations of former ages did. It is evident that what time and place cannot influence will continue to be everywhere in the world for eternity. It is also clear that a world-wide everlasting religion should have a world-wide everlasting document of legitimacy in its possession.

 

Then we can discuss the Holy Qur’an :

from the point of modern science;

and the scientific explorations;

and the rotation of the Earth;

and reproduction in the plant kingdom;

and general reproduction in all the particles of the world;

and general gravity;

and the surrendering of the Sun and the Moon;

and the secrets of the creation of mountains;

and the advent of the world;

and the existence of life on other planets;

and the winds, the pollinator of plants;

and the question of the roundness of the Earth;

And many other scientific facts and knowledge about the world can be found in the Holy Qur’an, too.

 

By this way you can use the mind to know the truth, and from falsehood and illusion

 

 

 

 

Buddhism is a man-made religion that appeared in India in the fifth century B.C.

Prince Siddhartha Gautama was the real name of Buddha, founder of Buddhism. He was the son of a king who ruled a city northern India. His mother was also a daughter of a king. He married his cousin when he was sixteen years old. This is what was mentioned about his biography in different references. This is evidence that he was a human being; he had a father, a mother and a wife, and he was not a Prophet.

However, there is no doubt that his followers stated some exaggerations about his personality. For instance, they stated that once he entered one temple and the idols therein prostrated to him, that the devil tried to lure him but in vain, and that light surrounded his head and his body flashed a great light. Those who saw him on this state said that he could not be a human being but a god, Allaah is High above what they associate to Him.

Buddhism is a false religion that is based on false beliefs, such as reincarnation, that Buddha was the son of god and the savior of humanity, and that he takes all their sins.

This belief is similar to the belief of many Christian sects regarding ‘Eesa (Jesus) may Allaah exalt his mention the son of Maryam (Mary), may Allaah exalt her mention.

http://www.youtube.c...zakir naik&sm=1

 

==

 

My dear brother

Your all wrong

Why called a miracle a miracle?

  Jibril came to the Messenger peace be upon him revelation to the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

To tell him the message of Islam, God

And news about the past, present and future

In order to denote the truth of prophecy and the message

This has already happened

   Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him told stories of Muslims from all the prophets all details

Although not born at that time

So God says about it

 

(44) And you, [O Muhammad], were not on the western side [of the mount] when We revealed to Moses the command, and you were not among the witnesses [to that]

(45) But We produced [many] generations [after Moses], and prolonged was their duration. And you were not a resident among the people of Madyan, reciting to them Our verses, but We were senders [of this message]

(46) And you were not at the side of the mount when We called [Moses] but [were sent] as a mercy from your Lord to warn a people to whom no warner had come before you that they might be reminded

(47) And if not that a disaster should strike them for what their hands put forth [of sins] and they would say, "Our Lord, why did You not send us a messenger so we could have followed Your verses and been among the believers?"..

 

(44) That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed.

 

(49) That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. You knew it not, neither you nor your people, before this. So be patient; indeed, the [best] outcome is for the righteous .

 

also Listen to the story of the Lizard

 

here

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxP79PRkTSI

 

'Ashura' commemorates the day that Allah saved the Children of Israel from Pharaoh.

Fasting on Muharram 10, known as the Day of 'Ashura', expiates for the sins of the past year. When the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) arrived in Madinah in 622 CE, he found that the Jews there fasted on Muharram 10 and asked them the reason for their fasting on this day. They said," This is a blessed day. On this day Allah saved the Children of Israel from their enemy (in Egypt) and so Prophet Musa [Moses] fasted on this day giving thanks to Allah."

The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said,

"We are closer to Musa than you are."

He fasted on that day and commanded Muslims to fast on this day. (Al-Bukhari) The following year, Allah commanded the Muslims to fast the month of Ramadan, and the fasting of 'Ashura' became optional. It is also reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) intended to fast on the ninth and tenth. Ibn 'Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah fasted on the day of 'Ashura' and ordered the people to fast on it. The people said, "O Messenger of Allah, it is a day that the Jews and Christians honor." The Prophet said, "When the following year comes, Allah willing, we shall fast on the ninth." The death of the Prophet came before the following year. (Muslim and Abu Dawud) For more on 'Ashura' and Muharram, please read:¤ The Significance of Fasting the Day of 'Ashura'  Virtues of the Month of Muharram & Fasting during It

Thus, according to scholars, you may choose to fast 'Ashura' on three days (ninth, tenth, and eleventh); two days (ninth and tenth); or one day only (the tenth). The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Fasting the day of 'Ashura' (is of great merits), I hope that Allah will accept it as an expiation for (the sins committed in) the previous year." (Muslim) But this expiation of minor sins comes only if you avoid major sins. It is a big mistake to rely on fasting a single day to "wipe your slate clean." If you neglect your daily Prayers or the fast of Ramadan, or if you backbite, lie, commit adultery or other major sins, fasting on 'Ashura' alone will not atone for your sins.

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=QHj_bsrYkrY

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kjp6e2OwZFw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXzFUeT2d9U



#25 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 05 January 2014 - 03:26 PM


 

 

23. And if you are in doubt of what We have sent down to Our (faithful) Servant (Muhammad), then bring forth one Sura the like thereof, and call your witnesses other than Allah, if you are truthful.

24. And if you do not do so, and you will never do it, then fear the Fire whose fuel is People and Stones, prepared for the infidels.

 

 
 
This statement alone goes against the teachings of love God and your neighbor by Christ. This is the exact opposite. It has the feeling of the Jewish House of Shammai.

http://www.dcmessage...echism/?p=54274

Jesus said it best on how Christians would be persecuted for their beliefs.

Matthew 10
 

10:16 “I am sending you out like sheep surrounded by wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.

10:17 Beware of people, because they will hand you over to councils and flog you in their synagogues.

10:18 And you will be brought before governors and kings because of me, as a witness to them and the Gentiles.

10:19 Whenever they hand you over for trial, do not worry about how to speak or what to say, for what you should say will be given to you at that time.

10:20 For it is not you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

10:21 “Brother will hand over brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rise against parents and have them put to death.

10:22 And you will be hated by everyone because of my name. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

10:23 Whenever they persecute you in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

10:24 “A disciple is not greater than his teacher, nor a slave greater than his master.

10:25 It is enough for the disciple to become like his teacher, and the slave like his master. If they have called the head of the house ‘Beelzebul,’ how much more will they defame the members of his household!

 
At least we can agree that one who is sinless with God is far closer to him than one that sins daily.
 

I heard Allah's Apostle saying: "By Allah! I ask for forgiveness from Allah and turn to Him in repentance more than seventy times a day." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 75, Number 319)

Al-Agharr al-Muzani, who was one amongst the Companions (of the Holy Prophet) reported that Allah's Messenger said: There is (at times) some sort of shade upon my heart, and I seek forgiveness from Allah a hundred times a day. (Sahih Muslim, Book 035, Number 6522)


also Listen to the story of the Lizard

 


I did watch it. We both believe that morals have been lost. But, you consider a warrior to be the best role model of mankind. I believe Jesus Christ, who teaches Love God first and Love thy neighbor second a better fit. One of the most difficult things is to wash the feet of your enemy and turn the other cheek.



John 13
 

13:1 Just before the Passover feast, Jesus knew that his time 1 had come to depart from this world to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now loved them to the very end.

13:2 The evening meal was in progress, and the devil had already put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s son, that he should betray Jesus.

13:3 Because Jesus knew that the Father had handed all things over to him, and that he had come from God and was going back to God,

13:4 he got up from the meal, removed his outer clothes, took a towel and tied it around himself.

13:5 He poured water into the washbasin and began to wash the disciples’ feet and to dry them with the towel he had wrapped around himself.

13:6 Then he came to Simon Peter. Peter said to him, “Lord, are you going to wash my feet?”

13:7 Jesus replied, “You do not understand what I am doing now, but you will understand after these things.”

13:8 Peter said to him, "You will never wash my feet!” Jesus replied, "If I do not wash you, you have no share with me.”

13:9 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, wash not only my feet, but also my hands and my head!”

13:10 Jesus replied, “The one who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean. And you disciples are clean, but not every one of you.”

13:11 (For Jesus knew the one who was going to betray him. For this reason he said, “Not every one of you is 29 clean.”)

13:12 So when Jesus had washed their feet and put his outer clothing back on, he took his place at the table again and said to them, “Do you understand what I have done for you?

13:13 You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and do so correctly, for that is what I am.

13:14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you too ought to wash one another’s feet.

13:15 For I have given you an example – you should do just as I have done for you.

13:16 I tell you the solemn truth, the slave is not greater than his master, nor is the one who is sent as a messenger greater than the one who sent him.

13:17 If you understand these things, you will be blessed if you do them.


1 John 2
 

2:3 Now by this we know that we have come to know God: 8 if we keep his commandments.

2:4 The one who says “I have come to know God” and yet does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in such a person.

2:5 But whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has been perfected. By this we know that we are in him.

2:6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked.

2:7 Dear friends, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word that you have already heard.

2:8 On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.

2:9 The one who says he is in the light but still hates his fellow Christian is still in the darkness.

2:10 The one who loves his fellow Christian resides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him.

2:11 But the one who hates his fellow Christian is in the darkness, walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

thebible_jesuschrist_diogo-morgado-20130
 
I plan to keep on researching the truth of Islam.

Here are simple questions for you.
 
Do you believe our earth was the first to be created before the rest of stars and planets?
 
Can you love a sinner and hate the sin?


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#26 eninn

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:21 AM

The practicality of Islamic Law is one particular aspect that truly impressed me at that time, It is a great blessing that in Islam one finds detailed teachings that result in their desired goals while, at the same time, being extremely practical and consistent with human nature. The lack of such teachings is one of the greatest dilemmas faced by Christianity. For example, with respect to societal cohesion and interaction, the greatest teachings found in the New Testament are what are known as “the hard sayings” of Jesus. They are as follows:

 

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:38-48).

 

Christian scholars themselves are perplexed. How are such obviously impossible or impractical teachings to be applied? Just one example of a discussion of these words will suffice to show how perplexing they are to those who staunchly believe in them:

 

[For interpreting these words, t]he model proposed by Joachim Jeremias is simple, representative, and of continuing influence. According to this model, the Sermon usually is seen in one of three ways: (1) as a perfectionist code, fully in line with the legalism of rabbinic Judaism; (2) as an impossible ideal, meant to drive the believer first to desperation, and then to trust in God's mercy; or (3) as an ‘interim ethic’ meant for what was expected to be a brief period of waiting in the end time, and which is now obsolete. Jeremias adds his own fourth thesis: The Sermon is an indicative depiction of incipient life in the kingdom of God, which presupposes as its condition of possibility the experience of conversion. More complex or comprehensive schematizations have been offered, but most major interpreters can be understood in relation to the options posed by Jeremias.[1]

 

In Islam, there are no such dilemmas. The teachings are easy, flexible, practical and completely suited to everyday life, even for a new Muslim living in a completely non-Islamic environment, such as I was. The famed author James A. Michener also noted and appreciated this aspect of Islam. In one of the earliest writings that I had read about Islam, entitled “Islam—the Misunderstood Religion,” Michener wrote,

 

The Koran is remarkably down-to-earth in its discussion of the good life. In one memorable passage it directs: ‘When ye deal with each other in transactions involving future obligations reduce them to writing… and get two witnesses…’ It is this combination of dedication to one God, plus practical instruction, that makes the Koran unique.[2

 

Looking back, what seems strange to me now is not that people would wish to embody Jesus’ values, but that others would criticize them for it.  What seems even stranger is that few Christians, in the modern day, match this profile.  is that Muslims seemed to embody Jesus’ values better than Christians.

1.      Jesus was bearded, as are most Muslims, but only the rare Christian.

2.      Jesus dressed modestly.  If we close our eyes and form a mental picture, we see flowing robes, from wrists to ankles—much like the loose Arabian thobes and the Indio-Pakistani shalwar kameez, typical of the Muslims of those areas.  What we don’t imagine is the revealing or seductive clothing so ubiquitous in Christian cultures.

3.      Jesus’ mother covered her hair, and this practice was maintained among the Christian women of the Holy Land up to the middle of the twentieth century.  Again, this is a practice maintained among Muslims as well as Orthodox Jews (of which Jesus was one), but not among modern day Christians.
Manners

1.      Jesus focused upon salvation and eschewed finery.  How many “righteous” Christians fit this “It’s not just on Sundays” profile?  Now how many “five prayers a day, every day of the year” Muslims?

2.      Jesus spoke with humility and kindness.  He didn’t “showboat.”  When we think of his speeches, we don’t imagine theatrics.  He was a simple man known for quality and truth.  How many preachers and how many evangelists follow this example?

3.      Jesus taught his disciples to offer the greeting of “Peace” (Luke 10:5), and then set the example: “Peace be with you” (Luke 24:36, John 20:19, John 20:21, John 20:26).  Who continues this practice to this day, Christians or Muslims?  “Peace be with you” is the meaning of the Muslim greeting, “Assalam alaikum.”  Interestingly enough, we find this greeting in Judaism as well (Genesis 43:23, Numbers 6:26, Judges 6:23, I Samuel 1:17 and I Samuel 25:6).
Religious Practices

1.      Jesus was circumcised (Luke 2:21).  Paul taught it wasn’t necessary (Rom 4:11 and Gal 5:2).  Muslims believe it is.

2.      Jesus didn’t eat pork, in keeping with Old Testament law (Leviticus 11:7 and Deuteronomy 14:8).  Muslims also believe pork is forbidden.  Christians … well, you get the idea.

3.      Jesus didn’t give or take usury, in compliance with the Old Testament prohibition (Exodus 22:25).  Usury is forbidden in the Old Testament and the Quran, as it was forbidden in the religion of Jesus.  The economies of most Christian countries, however, are structured upon usury.

4.      Jesus didn’t fornicate, and abstained from extramarital contact with women.  Now, this issue extends to the least physical contact with the opposite sex.  With the exception of performing religious rituals and helping those in need, Jesus never even touched a woman other than his mother.  Strictly practicing Orthodox Jews maintain this practice to this day in observance of Old Testament law.  Likewise, practicing Muslims don’t even shake hands between the sexes.  Can Christian “hug your neighbor” and “kiss the bride” congregations make the same claim?
Practices of Worship

1.      Jesus purified himself with washing prior to prayer, as was the practice of the pious prophets who preceded him (see Exodus 40:31-32 in reference to Moses and Aaron), and as is the practice of Muslims.

2.      Jesus prayed in prostration (Matthew 26:39), like the other prophets (see Nehemiah 8:6 with regard to Ezra and the people, Joshua 5:14 for Joshua, Genesis 17:3 and 24:52 for Abraham, Exodus 34:8 and Numbers 20:6 for Moses and Aaron).  Who prays like that, Christians or Muslims?

3.      Jesus fasted for more than a month at a time (Matthew 4:2 and Luke 4:2), as did the pious before him (Exodus 34:28, I Kings 19:8), and as do Muslims in the annual fast of the month of Ramadan.

4.      Jesus made pilgrimage for the purpose of worship, as all Orthodox Jews aspire to do.  The Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca is well known, and is alluded to in the Bible (see The First and Final Commandment).
Matters of Creed

1.      Jesus taught the oneness of God (Mark 12:29-30, Matthew 22:37 and Luke 10:27), as conveyed in the first commandment (Exodus 20:3).  Nowhere did he declare the Trinity.

2.      Jesus declared himself a man and a prophet of God (see above), and nowhere claimed divinity or divine sonship.  Which creed are the above points more consistent with—the Trinitarian formula or the absolute monotheism of Islam?



One wonders what happened between the practices of the first generation of Jesus’ followers and the Christians of modern day.  At the same time, we have to respect the fact that Muslims exemplify Jesus’ teachings more than Christians do.  Furthermore, we should remember that the Old Testament foretold three prophets to follow.  John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were numbers one and two, and Jesus Christ himself predicted the third and last.  Hence, both Old and New Testaments speak of a final prophet, and we would be amiss if we didn’t consider that final prophet to be Muhammad, and the final revelation to be that of Islam



#27 eninn

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 12:25 AM

someone told me

You will find this interesting. My son had to write a report about all the contributions Muslims made to the western world. Pretty amazing.Many of these things, they are credited with inventing.

 

1. Algebra

2. Scientific Method

3. They saved a lot of famous books during the fall of the roman empire

4. geology

Then there was this list of Muslim invention:

 

1) Coffee

.

2) Pin-Hole Camera

 

3) Chess

A form of chess was played in ancient India but the game was developed into the form we know it today in Persia.

4) Parachute

 

5) Shampoo

 

6) Refinement

7) crank-shaft device

) Metal Armor

 

9) Pointed Arch

 

10) Surgery

 

11) Windmill

 

12) Vaccination

 

13) Fountain Pen

 

14) Numerical Numbering

 

15) Soup

 

17) Pay Cheques

T

 

18) Earch is in sphere shape?

 

19) Rocket and Torpedo

.

 

20) Gardens



#28 eninn

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 05:47 AM

so some one tell me;

 

I agree with you, however, that Jesus Christ was send as a messenger by God, nothing else. Jesus said so himself as quoted in John 7:16: "I am not teaching you my own thoughts, but those of God who sent me."

 

Much of the blame for distoring the mission of Jesus Christ belongs to the apostle Paul

 

so

 

Jesus Christ peace be upon him

Not sacrificed for  any one

e.x

You have a disease

Then comes your brother

  Receive treatment instead of you

 

Is this acceptable to the logic of the mind?

 

Death to the people who worshiped the calf is repentance

At the time of the Prophet Moses, peace be upon him

Then

At the time of the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him

 

Law requires repentance from sin without having to death

 

Jesus Christ peace be upon him

Not sacrificed for any one

 

(the soul that sinneth, it shall die)

 

Each person is responsible for his actions

(the soul that sinneth, it shall die)

“If a man is righteous and does what is lawful and right...he is righteous, he shall surely live...If he begets a son who...has done all these abominable things; he (the son) shall surely die...the son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father for the iniquity of the son.” (Ezekiel 18:5-20)

“Every one shall die for his own sin.” (Jeremiah 31:30)

 

احمد ديدات التزييف فى الكتاب المقدس - Plaigirism in The Bibl  YouTube

 

A real miracle in one word is a word ( smoke) contained in the Holy Quran while talking about the beginning of the creation of the universe . In spite of the skeptic 's objection to the word on the pretext that scientists call dense clouds scattered call interstellar dust , and this is the scientific term , but that the Quran proves day after day sincerity of his words and Meanings accuracy ,

 

Words of the Almighty in his book al-Majid , speaking about the beginning of the creation of the universe , and how the sky was in the beginning created smoke , and God separated the heavens to the seven heavens , says the Almighty : (  11 - Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: We do come (together), in willing obedience..

12 - So he completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, full or knowledge.

 

 

This great Quranic text in which several scientific miracles did not manifest until very recently .

 

As long as the attention of scientists to the universe that is filled with cosmic dust , and they were when they discovered say that this cloud or cloud this cloud is composed of dust particles . But after their knowledge of the universe evolved and were able to bring these molecules that they call it cosmic dust came out to the earth and subdue it for laboratory analysis , what was the result?

 

 

Says the world who oversaw the analysis in the laboratories of the U.S. space agency NASA:

 

" These molecules , which we called cosmic dust never like dust , and if we want that half of these molecules very carefully the best word is the word ( smoke ) and in English means Smoke".

 

The irony is that this word (Smoke) put it in brackets , because it is a new word for them , but not new to the Book of Allah , the Almighty , book wonders who told us about it four centuries ago . Therefore, the Almighty God when he told us about it Tell us the word of the minute is the same word used by scientists today to express the fact that this cosmological smoke .

 

Scientists say today

 

The Super Nova explosion ( explosion star ) which is transmitted large amounts of smoke , give us the solution to the mystery of the mysteries of the universe , namely the presence of large amounts of smoke in the early emergence of cosmic universe.

 

If scientists assert that the universe in its infancy, it was full of smoke ! ! Is not that what the Quran says in verse

 

Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke...” (Quran 41:11) ) ? !

 

Of important facts in astronomy today that cosmic smoke spread in huge quantities in the universe , which obscures the light from most of the stars . This smoke covers the surface of planets , and clouds of smoke could be a giant stars and galaxies , if smoke is an important basis in the construction of the universe . Scientists confirm that this smoke is present since the beginning of the creation of the universe .

 

As long as occurring Western scientists about the " clouds of dust " prevalent in this vast universe , but they finally began to acknowledge that this label is not scientifically accurate , but that the word "smoke" is more accurate , so they say , after they discovered the smoke from explosions Stars Smoking Supernovae:

 

"The cosmic dust is a fine particles of solid material swim in interstellar space . It's not like dust that we see in homes , but very similar to smoke a cigarette. The presence of this smoke cosmic around stars emerging to help them shape, as well as smoke cosmic stone is construction of the planets . "

 

 

 

This smoke caused by explosions stars, may be a result of the Big Bang at the beginning of creation, and scientists assert that the volume of smoke clouds may be greater than the size of the stars in the universe! It becomes a permanent basis, and there is a high probability that the cosmic approaching this smoke out of our heads ! !

 

Any that scientists do not rule out that the smoke cloud approaching us land remains even penetrate the atmosphere ! The irony is that the Quran had told all this happens , one of the signs Day of Resurrection, and that God will reveal this smoke, the Almighty says : ( 10 - Then watch thou for the Day that the sky will bring forth a kind of smoke (or mist) plainly visible,

 

(11) 11 - Enveloping the people: this will be a Penalty Grievous.

 

(12) 12 - (They will say:) Our Lord! Remove the Penalty from us for we do really believe!

 

(13) 13 - How shall the Message be (effectual) for them, seeing that an Apostle explaining things clearly has (already) come to them,

 

(14) 14 - Yet they turn away from him and say: Tutored (by others), a man possessed!

 

(15) 15 - We shall indeed remove the Penalty for a while, (but) truly ye will revert (to your ways). ) [ smoke : 10-15 ] .

 

If asked today any scientist at NASA whichever you prefer to call these clouds of cosmic : dust or smoke, tell immediately that the word "smoke " that accurately reflect the reality of these clouds, and our question for those skeptics : Is not this what he did to the Koran when he was Password ( smoke) before NASA scientists four centuries ? ? !

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9iDzfRGKLo

 

 

 

1- Smoking Supernovae, Science Daily, Jul. 24, 2003.

 

2- Astronomy Picture of the Day, NASA, 21/9/2007.

3- G. Jeffrey Taylor,  A New Type of Stardust, Hawai'i Institute of Geophysics and Planetology, Hawaii University. 29/8/2003.



#29 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 07 January 2014 - 06:15 AM

Allah says: "Allah commands you to render trusts to their owners, and when you judge between people, that you do so with justice. Excellent indeed is the admonition He gives you, for Allah hears and sees all things." [Sûrah al-Nisâ': 58]
http://en.islamtoday...ow-264-3417.htm

 
Ennin,
I am not arguing that there have been and are now many great inventors and scientist of Islamic faith. I also do not understand your statement that Muslims follow Christ's actions better than Christians. The video you wrote for me to watch is Muhammad Abdul Jabbar scolding Muslims for not keeping the Law of their faith. This happens in Judaism as well.

But, you fail to respond directly to my questions:

Do you believe our earth was the first to be created before the rest of stars and planets?

Can you love a sinner and hate the sin?

Instead you cut and paste the same conversation that has been around for at least six years written by a man named Jamaal??? Here are three examples to prove my point.
 

Description: The comprehensiveness, completeness, balance and practicality of the law itself.
By Jamaal al-Din Zarabozo (© 2007 IslamReligion.com)
Published on 02 Apr 2007 - Last modified on 19 Feb 2008
Viewed: 22922 (daily average: 9) - Rating: 4.4 out of 5 - Rated by: 7
Printed: 1896 - Emailed: 5 - Commented on: 0
http://www.islamreli...m/articles/541/

 

The practicality of Islamic Law is one particular aspect that truly impressed me at that time, coming, again, from my Christian background. It is a great blessing that in Islam one finds detailed teachings that result in their desired goals while, at the same time, being extremely practical and consistent with human nature. The lack of such teachings is one of the greatest dilemmas faced by Christianity. For example, with respect to societal cohesion and interaction, the greatest teachings found in the New Testament are what are known as “the hard sayings” of Jesus. They are as follows:

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:38-48).
- See more at: http://www.faitholog...h.OytXfrSy.dpuf

http://www.faitholog...-the-sky/page-2


The practicality of Islamic Law is one particular aspect that truly impressed me at that time, coming, again, from my Christian background. It is a great blessing that in Islam one finds detailed teachings that result in their desired goals while, at the same time, being extremely practical and consistent with human nature. The lack of such teachings is one of the greatest dilemmas faced by Christianity. For example, with respect to societal cohesion and interaction, the greatest teachings found in the New Testament are what are known as “the hard sayings” of Jesus. They are as follows:

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:38-48).
http://www.centerfor...505/P15/#186158


If you are not Jamaal, then please put quotes around the words written by others, so I know what you actually are writing and thinking.
 
Matthew 10
 

10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the one who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


You might like this thought. Both you and I have shared breath. God connects us all.
 

Astronomer Harlow Shapley calculates that the Argon you exhale will have spread across the country within a week, and within one year the same argon atoms you exhale will have traveled around the entire earth, some of them making there way back to you (maybe as few as 15) to be breathed again.

Shapley says that your next breath will contain 400,000 argon atoms that Ghandi breathed during his long life, argon atoms from conversations at the Last Supper, and from recitations by classical poets like Shakespeare.

The gas Argon maintains a constant interaction between everyone past and present. This means we are breathing argon from the first breath of every newborn and the last breath of everyone who passes on. Can you imagine, the list is endless of those who we have breathed through Argon, heroes and villain alike. Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, Mother Theresa, JFK, Martin Luther King, Aristotle, Di Vinci, Joan of Arc, Einstein, Plato, the dinosaurs, whales, your neighbors pet, make your own list! You’ve been sharing Argon with everyone your entire life! You literally inhale and exhale your ancestors!

http://healingmankin...cted-to-others/


I am sure Mohammed knew this revelation. The Book of the Prophet Enoch (Idris) was written 800 years before he was born.

Chapter 40
 

And after that I saw thousands of thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand, I saw a multitude beyond number and reckoning, who stood before the Lord of Spirits. And on the four sides of the Lord of Spirits I saw four presences, different from those that sleep not, and I learned their names: for the angel that went with me made known to me their names, and showed me all the hidden things. And I heard the voices of those four presences as they uttered praises before the Lord of glory.

The first voice blesses the Lord of Spirits for ever and ever. And the second voice I heard blessing the Elect One and the elect ones who hang upon the Lord of Spirits. And the third voice I heard pray and intercede for those who dwell on the earth and supplicate in the name of the Lord of Spirits. And I heard the fourth voice fending off the Satans and forbidding them to come before the Lord of Spirits to accuse them who dwell on the earth. After that I asked the angel of peace who went with me, who showed me everything that is hidden:

'Who are these four presences which I have seen and whose words I have heard and written down?'

And he said to me:

'This first is Michael, the merciful and long-suffering:

and the second, who is set over all the diseases and all the wounds of the children of men, is Raphael:

and the third, who is set over all the powers, is Gabriel:

and the fourth, who is set over the repentance unto hope of those who inherit eternal life, is named Phanuel.'

And these are the four angels of the Lord of Spirits and the four voices heard in those days.


Chapter 41
 

And after that I saw all the secrets of the heavens, and how the kingdom is divided, and how the actions of men are weighed in the balance. And there I saw the mansions of the elect and the mansions of the holy, and mine eyes saw there all the sinners being driven from thence which deny the name of the Lord of Spirits, and being dragged off: and they could not abide because of the punishment which proceeds from the Lord of Spirits.

And there mine eyes saw the secrets of the lightning and of the thunder, and the secrets of the winds, how they are divided to blow over the earth, and the secrets of the clouds and dew, and there I saw from whence they proceed in that place and from whence they saturate the dusty earth.

And there I saw closed chambers out of which the winds are divided, the chamber of the hail and winds, the chamber of the mist, and of the clouds, and the cloud thereof hovers over the earth from the beginning of the world.

And I saw the chambers of the sun and moon, whence they proceed and whither they come again, and their glorious return, and how one is superior to the other, and their stately orbit, and how they do not leave their orbit, and they add nothing to their orbit and they take nothing from it, and they keep faith with each other, in accordance with the oath by which they are bound together. And first the sun goes forth and traverses his path according to the commandment of the Lord of Spirits, and mighty is His name for ever and ever.

And after that I saw the hidden and the visible path of the moon, and she accomplishes the course of her path in that place by day and by night-the one holding a position opposite to the other before the Lord of Spirits.

And they give thanks and praise and rest not;

For unto them is their thanksgiving rest.

For the sun changes oft for a blessing or a curse,

And the course of the path of the moon is light to the righteous

And darkness to the sinners in the name of the Lord,

Who made a separation between the light and the darkness,

And divided the spirits of men,

And strengthened the spirits of the righteous,

In the name of His righteousness.

For no angel hinders and no power is able to hinder; for He appoints a judge for them all and He judges them all before Him.


As for the Ezekiel. The passage you refer to did not mean that doing good works would atone for past sins eternally. It meant that doing good works could preclude God’s judgment of premature physical death, a judgment promised under the Mosaic Law for those who practiced wickedness. The entire chapter reveals the consequences of good and bad conduct in this physical life under the Mosaic Covenant. It does not deal with the subject of eternal life. Eternal life has always come to a person by faith alone.

Christians are personally responsible for our actions, just as the Israelites were. Our personal actions will affect our lives just as was true in Israel. For Christians, who live under the New Covenant, premature death may be God’s judgment for sin. However, under the New Covenant what we do in this life also has eternal consequences, not that we will lose our salvation, but we will suffer the loss of some eternal rewards. The Lord normally gave Old Testament saints the hope that their material reward would come before they died, but He has given Christians the hope that our reward will come mainly after we die. God has always justified people for their trust in Him, and He has always rewarded them for their works.

The Prophet Daniel speaks more clearly of death and the glory resurrection. But, it does not define ascension to the new kingdom as mentioned in Enoch and later Jesus.

Daniel 12
 

12:2 Many of those who sleep

in the dusty ground will awake –

some to everlasting life,

and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.

12:3 But the wise will shine

like the brightness of the heavenly expanse.

And those bringing many to righteousness

will be like the stars forever and ever.


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#30 eninn

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Posted 10 January 2014 - 09:42 PM

Just look at how some people in the West have no idea about the origin of Mathematics and Science and that the foundations of both were set by the non western world, way way before western science and mathematics was ever thought of. China, Ancient Greece, India, Egypt, Near East as well as Islamic countries. Without the centuries of research by these non Westeners including the Arabs, Greeks and Chinese and the Egyptians together with all their Gods, you might still be throwing spears and smearing coloured dirt on your face.... You just might also have stop using the decimal point and stop using words like algebra and algorithm both of which derive from Islam.

 

 

Science in the medieval Islamic world, also known as Islamic science or Arabic science, is the science developed and practised in the Islamic world during the Islamic Golden Age (c.750 CE – c.1258 CE). During this time, Indian, Asyriac, Iranian and especially Greek knowledge was translated into Arabic. These translations became a wellspring for scientific advances, by scientists from the Islamic civilization, during the Middle Ages.

 

Scientists within the Islamic civilization were of diverse ethnicities. Most were Persians,Arabs, Moors, Assyrians, and Egyptians. They were also from diverse religious backgrounds. Most were Muslims,

 

Science in the medieval Islamic world - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

History of mathematics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Muslim scientists placed far greater emphasis on experiment than had the Greeks.This led to an early scientific method being developed in the Muslim world, where significant progress in methodology was made, beginning with the experiments of Ibn al-Haytham (Alhazen) on optics from c. 1000, in his Book of Optics. The law of refraction of light was known to the Persians.The most important development of the scientific method was the use of experiments to distinguish between competing scientific theories set within a generally empirical orientation, which began among Muslim scientists. Ibn al-Haytham is also regarded as the father of optics, especially for his empirical proof of the intromission theory of light. Some have also described Ibn al-Haytham as the 'first scientist' for his development of the modern scientific method.

In mathematics, the Persian mathematician Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi gave his name to the concept of the algorithm, while the term algebra is derived from al-jabr, the beginning of the title of one of his publications. What is now known as Arabic numerals originally came from India, but Muslim mathematicians did make several refinements to the number system, such as the introduction of decimal point notation.

History of science - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The 'First True Scientist' (BBC Science and Environment News)

Isaac Newton is, as most will agree, the greatest physicist of all time.

At the very least, he is the undisputed father of modern optics,­ or so we are told at school where our textbooks abound with his famous experiments with lenses and prisms, his study of the nature of light and its reflection, and the refraction and decomposition of light into the colours of the rainbow.

Yet, the truth is rather greyer; and I feel it important to point out that, certainly in the field of optics, Newton himself stood on the shoulders of a giant who lived 700 years earlier.

For, without doubt, another great physicist, who is worthy of ranking up alongside Newton, is a scientist born in AD 965 in what is now Iraq who went by the name of al-Hassan Ibn al-Haytham.

Most people in the West will never have even heard of him.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=_BNpfWrTqHM

#



#31 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 12 January 2014 - 03:03 PM

I am trying to figure whether you are making a racial or religious, or both racial and religious remark here.

I would disagree that Greece was Eastern. I would place it the crossroads of Europe, Western Asia, and Africa. Ancient Greece is considered the birthplace of Western civilization. I am sure you know its history with Persia. I do have a fondness for Cyrus the Great. But, he was Zoroastrian (side note. I believe Zoroastrian was the first religion to believe in one God).
 
zarathustra.jpg
 

Asha defined: The first among Gathic concepts (enumerated earlier) is ASHA. It is an Aryan concept, shared by Hindus, as well as by Persians. In archaic Sanskrit, it is Rta/Rita, and the Law of the Universe. In both Sanskrit and Gathic Avestan, it literally means "what fits", in any and every situation; in every physical, emotional, ethical, mental, material and/or spiritual relationship.

In the realm of the strictly physical and material, it can be defined as the amalgam of laws that rule and uphold the Cosmos - the laws of chemistry, physics, biology, etc. It is what is real, accurate and factual. Without Asha, scientifically the use of verifiable repeatable experiments to establish scientific theory, laws and facts would not work, for Asha is the Ordering Principle of the Universe. It's this, for example, what makes water always freeze at the same temperature, under the same pressure and chemical composition. Thus it is also 'Precision'.

In the ethical and emotional sense, it means what is good for existence, what is the right thing to do, what is in harmony with God's Order or Plan, and thus what is in harmony with God's will. It is in this sense that it is closer to righteousness and justice, but even here it has other meanings as, I pointed out in the previous sentence. It is in the mental sense that Asha is more like what science finds about creation, it is Reality itself and in the strictly spiritual sense, is more like truth, objective truth, but it includes Objective Right and Objective Reality. In all these senses it is opposed to Druj as delusion, illusion and falsehood. But if there is one definition that encompasses all of these shades, it is Asha as Order, It is Order of what is Right, True and Real. All in a nut shell, it is The True and Right Order of Things, The framework of Science Ethics, Religion and Reality.

The indwelling of Deity in existence is better shown and grasped in Asha and Fire. For Asha clearly indwells all existence and makes it possible, as many laws such as Gravity, that keeps matter together, and as Osmosis, which allows the oxygenation of blood through breathing. Asha makes possible everything we see, hear and smell, and every breath we take. It is a clear example of why the Yatha Ahu insists that through Asha and Vohu Manah, the deeds of life are done for the Most Wise Creator. In Xianity we see this teaching, that is inferred in the Gathas and their terminology as well. Especially in Paul, when he quotes a Greek philosopher, talking about the Unknown God and says:"In Him we move, live and have our being".

http://www.zoroastrianism.cc/asha.html


I have mentioned several times that it appears the Zoroastrians influenced the concept of 'hell' to the Jewish pharisees held in captivity, then on to Christians. If only Alexander did not decimate the Persian capital we would know so much more about this.


 
I would agree that Babylon had the first recorded use of mutual prime integers estimated 1800 BC. Babylonian's were not Islamic. There deities were copies of the Sumerians. Just like Romans copied the Greeks. Arphaxad's family lived in Shinar and Ur. Abraham and Jacob where Arphaxad's descendants. But, Abraham rejected the world of many gods. So, yes the Jews, Christians, and Muslims have a great linage in that sense.

As for Europeans. I would state that you need to read your history of the Roman Empire. Just like Sumerian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Mauryan, Ottoman, ect... the Romans had many great achievements. Look up aeolipile as an example.

In short whenever you have a large body of people together great scientific and socioeconomic achievements happen. The United States built and used the world's most destructive weapon from the minds of American and European scientists. Read the Einstein–Szilárd letter to President Roosevelt.

http://www.dannen.com/ae-fdr.html

Today we have world collaborations like CERN and the International Space Station. Meaning we are all in this together.

America is a soup pot filled with people from every corner of the globe including: China, Greece, India, Egypt, Near East as well as Islamic countries. These Americans make the USA great. My family is from Spain, a historical hub for Muslims, Christians, and Jews. Europe is full of migrants too.

It is ok to have national, cultural, and religious pride. But, do not think one side is mentally superior to the other. That is a losing argument. We are all the creation of God (Allah).
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#32 eninn

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Posted 13 January 2014 - 09:36 PM



#33 Luke Wilbur

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Posted 14 January 2014 - 07:53 AM

Muhammad al-Ghazālī may have been a great A mujaheddin, but the video you posted sheds light that his reforms stomped out science for the Muslim people. Neil Degrasse Tyson states that scientific innovation for the Middle East has not recovered since. I will have to better understand why Muhammad al-Ghazālī thought "mathematics is the work of the devil." That is why I have written to you that the problem is not with Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Rather the problem lies with with the intelligent scientific approach atheists have learned from Jews, Christians, and Muslims in undoing humanities moral belief in God (Allah, Adonai)and replacing it with a more probable odds approach.

Gandhi once tried to figure the best way to protest the British was to follow Jesus Christ's Sermon on the Mount speech and create a successful peaceful protest which made him famous. Martin Luther King and Nelson Mendela followed the same path and were victorious. That is why I believe that we must show those who do not believe tolerance and display good morals for them to follow.
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